The Switch to HD - New Equip. Rates?

[Graybeard]

It looks to me that in the next two years we will all be switching over to HD, in one form or another. This necessitates some major equipment purchases for those of us who haven't made the leap already. New 2/3" cameras, lenses, and monitors to go with them are going to be a major investment ($50-75K).
The networks will probably try to hold the line on equipment rates. But they are now still paying what they payed in the mid-eighties for gear. And they continue to abuse us by demanding free wireless links, free wide angle lenses, free HMI's, etc.
The question is, what do you think the future is for the daily equipment charge that helps keep our business afloat, both in the network world, and in the rest of the freelance community.

[dhart]

It looks to me that in the next two years we will all be switching over to HD, in one form or another. This necessitates some major equipment purchases for those of us who haven't made the leap already. New 2/3" cameras, lenses, and monitors to go with them are going to be a major investment ($50-75K).
The networks will probably try to hold the line on equipment rates. But they are now still paying what they payed in the mid-eighties for gear. And they continue to abuse us by demanding free wireless links, free wide angle lenses, free HMI's, etc.
The question is, what do you think the future is for the daily equipment charge that helps keep our business afloat, both in the network world, and in the rest of the freelance community.

That is the $64,000.00 question. Unless you are booked 4 to 5 days a week, just about every week of the year, I don't see how the economics work. When I first entered this business in the early 80's a two person betacam crew plus gear went for $1,500 per day. Now some 25 years later, the rate is the same.

[Stoney]

Well, sure, the betacam rate stayed the same... which either means that we are getting screwed or that the rate in the 80's was really high. I think it might be more of the latter. That may reveal my youth but I am not going to shake a stick at a $1500 day's work. The economics of that work out just fine even if I am not that busy... that is with betacam.

Now, though, HD rates are significantly higher than beta rates. That makes sense because a betacam package is much cheaper to own or rent. Hopefully the HD rate stays high and the equipment costs come down (like the 2/3" XD that Sony hopefully releases soon). I will likely never buy a F900-level HD cam because that is not much of my shooting. The broadcast clients will probably settle on something cheaper but high quality...

It makes me want to be a still shooter. I heard a story last week from someone who assists a freelance stills guy. She said he routinely did shoots for $10k and made even more on the royalties of his images. And, he wasn't that big of a big shot stills shooter. Wouldn't that be nice?

[Skipcam]

Just want to point out one of the fine points of Greybeards posting. We are not being paid the same rate for BetaSP packages as we were in the 80's. Back then the package included only a basic equipment list. Now we are being told (not asked!) to include some very expensive equipment that we used to be paid extra for. Now you have to have that gear - even if it isn't used. That means we are being paid significantly less then in 1984. I have a copy of the 1984 CBS News equipment pay schedule for freelance crews. It paid $525.00 day for 1/2" Beta Package. No wide angle lens, no HMI's, no wireless audio systems. The last time I rented a Varicam package, it was $1200 day with no wide angle lens, no lighting (let alone HMI's) and no audio. The network magazine shows have been the benchmark for daily equipment costs for decades. The HD package rates have been dictated by network and cable sports shoots. With new camera bodies (even HD) costing about what (SD) they did more than a decade ago, I think it's the higher priced ancillary gear that's being given away. And what other business has the clients dictating the rates?

[Rutledge]

I guess that is the beauty of working under a collective bargaining agreement, in this era. Unions have been losing collective pull in this country since Ronald Reagan, huh 1984, was president. The networks are greedy and I guarantee that they will try to hold the line on gear rental, in fact they will probably try to get some more give backs.
I don't know about you guys but I have always felt like the union was just some fat guy with his hand in my pocket.
As for the HD gear rates staying high, I imagine that once everyone buys in, the competitve marketplace will bring the rates down closer to what we rent our SD gear for now.

[Graybeard]

Skip, you're right. Like we said, the rates that the Nets pay for equipment hasn't budged in a long time. But it's strange that the camera prices today are the most advantageous for cameramen starting out than they've ever been. They don't make top of the line analog camcorders anymore (D600, etc.), even though that's what we're using on most shows. But you could buy a brand new DXCD50WS with a Beta recorder for $20K, or a used D600 for $10K, not bad if you were foolish enough to buy SD today. I was staff back in the early eightees, but I seem to remember that a new Ikegami 79 back then was about $45-50K, and that's without a recorder.
So, overall, even though the Nets haven't raised the rates, SD equipment has been pretty cheap for the past decade, considering the quality far surpasses the old stuff.
I think the young guys are in for a rude awakening when they step up to a new, top of the line, HD package.

[dinosaur]

I think that its the "Ann-Marie" types at the nets that are bean counting the freelancers to death. All they see is that they are purchasing the few remaining staff cameramen left ALL of the same toys that we used to provide on an ala carte basis. Their rational is "why should we pay freelancers more for something that is considered part of the staffer's ENG package". It presents a real Catch 22 for us. The field producers see us with cutting edge accessories, then they ask why the freelancers have gear that the staffers don't have. Then they buy it for the staffers and in turn they expect us to throw it in for the basic package rate. Not realizing the proportional investment that we are making in these toys. They then arbitrarily change the list and rates only to save money. If they only had to rent the gear in our packages by the piece from a rental house they would quickly realize what all of the "stuff in the van" really costs. Remember a few years back when NBC News tried to roll back the rate to $350.? They suddenly could not find any freelancers with significant packages to work for them.

I find that it is only the network news ops. that hold this tight noose on our rates. The rest of my clients are more realistic about HD & SD package rates. HD rates may be artificially high right now, but the rates are set by the marketplace, not by some arbitrary "Ann-Marie" in NYC.

[freedom]

dino posted: "Remember a few years back when NBC News tried to roll back the rate to $350.? They suddenly could not find any freelancers with significant packages to work for them."

There you have it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to work for anybody. It's all supply and demand. As Lido used to say "if you can find a better car, buy it!"

[Stoney]

I think the young guys are in for a rude awakening when they step up to a new, top of the line, HD package.

Here's the thing, though. Most of my clients are not going to be requesting top of the line HD equipment. In fact, I would bet most of the clients of everyone here will not, or do not, use the highest end stuff. Sure, right now there are only a few options on HD gear, most of it expensive. However, that will come down. I use F900's on occasion but not often.

The need for the the costliest HD is low, really. High end advertising, features, etc. are using it but not most broadcast clients. Nets aren't going to want it, cable programs aren't going to want it. They want a median format (some have already bought into the XDHD 1/2" Sony), something better than prosumer but not as expensive as top-end. Something on par with today's BetaSP but in HD.

So, no, I am not really worried about stepping up to a top of the line HD package. I don't think I will need to, quite frankly. As it is, you can get an mid-level HD cam for half what a F900 runs. If the nets start demanding highest end cameras, well I will have egg on my face. But I doubt it, and even then, I won't mope about it but will figure out how to make it happen and purchase the gear.

I think now is a pretty good time to get into freelancing. I hear a lot of people say that the future of freelancing is bleak but I just haven't seen that. Gear is getting cheaper, so, to me, the key will be in your skills. If you can light, tell stories, and deliver the goods you will rise above the posers who buy gear and don't know what they are doing. There is an aweful lot of programming to fill and not all of it is going to be VJ crap, either.

Those that have been in for 20 years should count themselves lucky. I know many guys who have made a lot of coin on their freelance careers, more than they would have ever seen as a staffer. Sure the golden age of day-rates may be past but it's still pretty lucrative. Plus, all that time in the biz means that many are first calls and get the lion's share of shoots.

So when it comes to rates, who knows? I see the point in saying that much of the gear is expected now. That is lame. So is inflation and the inability of daily rates to keep up with that inflation. But, as things currently stand, I don't think my rates are too low for the gear I shoot on.

[Skipcam]

So cut to the chase and ask yourself: If 60 Minutes, or Dateline or Primetime, or any single big network magazine show you work for says: As of (fill-in-the-blank) date we will only accept freelancers who will work for us in our new format of say, 2/3 inch XDCAM HD camera (around 45K)with standard (17K) and wide angle (22K) HD lenses and a HD playback/record machine (maybe 20K), and we will pay exactly the same as we have been paying for BetaSP/SX, but will no longer accept those formats, will you buy the equipment to continue along the same economics?

[Run&Gun]

HD is coming, slowly but shurely. Some of the gear costs more than it's SD counterpart, but some of it is on par or even less than than SD was even a few years ago. You can pick up an HDX-900 for about the same as my D-50WS about three to three and a half years ago. Hell, I have about the same tied up in my VariCam as I would have if I had bought the D-600WS that I was looking at in 2000, and I'm making a lot more money off of the VariCam per day than I would have ever done with the 600. I'm fortunate enough to have a client who made the commitment to HD and in turn has allowed me to "go HD". They are currently paying a very good HD rate(more than twice my Beta rate), but as others have said, this may not stay the same as HD gear prices come down(and a lot of it already has). A very real concern that I see is for those that already own upper level HD gear like the VariCam and F-900, is when clients start calling for HD and all they "need" is HDX-900 quality/features, but you own a VariCam and they don't want to pay a VariCam rate. Does that mean those that shoot on multiple (quality)levels must own multiple quality cameras, or bite the bullet and charge less for more expensive gear or just forego accepting work from those that call needing "less HD". For years, all you needed was one Betacam. A 600(or other high-end Betacam) would cover you from high-end network to corporate, to whatever level Beta shoot was required. Now, one HD camera may not be enough, and that's not even getting into the different formats.

[Icarus112277]

I don't even own (or plan to buy) any equipment and I jack the rates up if its HD. There is a lot of extra knowledge and many, many traps that come with HD work. If I were spending on equipment I would definitely jack the rates.

[Stoney]

So cut to the chase and ask yourself: If 60 Minutes, or Dateline or Primetime, or any single big network magazine show you work for says: As of (fill-in-the-blank) date we will only accept freelancers who will work for us in our new format of say, 2/3 inch XDCAM HD camera (around 45K)with standard (17K) and wide angle (22K) HD lenses and a HD playback/record machine (maybe 20K), and we will pay exactly the same as we have been paying for BetaSP/SX, but will no longer accept those formats, will you buy the equipment to continue along the same economics?

No, not if it means I lose money. But then, who would? And if nobody does, then the networks have no choice but to raise rates if they want freelancers with that gear. As it stands now, the HD rates are already much higher than BetaSP... do you think they will go down so much as to make it unprofitable? I don't see that happening at all, really.

[Skipcam]

Stoney: That's what I want to hear! And to answer your question about who would do it, the answer is somebody that is not very business savvy. But there will be guys who think that if they do, they'll get the bulk of the work from that source. Experience has shown they won't. Bottom line is we have to have considerably higher rates than BetaSP/SX to make that move.

[No half-days]

So, given this discussion we've been having of HD gear, would anyone like to share what they're charging for an HD package? I'm asking because I just purchased a Panasonic HDX900, and would like to get a better idea of how to position this, price-wise. I suppose I'll answer my own question once I start working with it frequently, and discover what clients are willing to pay, but for the time being, it would be nice to know a good starting point.

[Ed_Scott]

Too many variables to nail down a fixed rate, but I charge $2400 10 hours 2 man crew for the Varicam. I've heard owners of the HDX900 charge between $1800-$2100.

[Run&Gun]

I bill $2300 for 2 man, 10 hour VariCam. One man band is topping out at $2000. After talking with another VariCam owner, it's looking like HD (shooting)labor is up to $800 a day(10hr.). Sorry, I don't know any "rates" for the HDX, but I'm sure everyone is trying to get as much as they can out of them, while they can. The one person that I know that owns one is on the upper end of the rate scale, so I'm sure he is billing VariCam rates on it, but that's just speculation on my part.

[freedom]

I'd go with varicam rates until pushed otherwise.
I've had 2 national clients tell me the HDX900 would be acceptable as a replacement for the Varicam with no change in rates.

[Cameradude]

The cost of buying a Varicam is about what it was to buy a D600 several years ago. Luckily for Varicam owners, they have been able to raise the bar to $1800-$2000 for a one man crew. In most markets that represents a 25%-35% pay raise. ABC News is currently paying $1200 a day for a Varicam package versus $550 for the Betacam packages.

Personally, I think the rates for the Varicam and the F900 are stable and will remain where they are. As more shooters purchase cameras we may even see a slight 5%-10% decrease from current levels.

The HDX900 has the most potential of all the cameras for shaking things up both in the 720p and 1080i markets. It is a very affordable camera and offers the ENG minded buyer more than any other camera out there.

HD is coming, I have said it for years, but it just doesn't seem to be closing in as fast as I thought it would. Honestly, I thought I would have HAD to purchase one by now. There are certain markets where you can buy a camera and work it a lot. In most cases though it involves having one "cash cow" client that will provide you enough work to justify it.

[No half-days]

ABC News is currently paying $1200 a day for a Varicam package versus $550 for the Betacam packages.

Thanks for that info, Cameradude, and thanks to everyone else for the open discussion about HD rates.

:) Now, does anyone wish to post their HD client list? :)