Crewing?

[i-shoot]

I was wondering if any of you guys/gals have any advise on working with a crewing company?

[Baltimore Shooter]

DON'T accept work with a crewer who wants to take a percentage FROM YOU. They should take the percenatge from the client by taking your rate and adding their fee on top of that. They should NOT take a percentage from YOUR rate.

There are some unscrupulous crewing companies that double dip by taking a percentage from you AND the client.

Warren

[Icarus112277]

Never worked cold with one or with one who takes a percentage.

I have worked with many (15-20) and currently (in the last year) work for 10-12...

Genrally very good. Be brief and positive on the phone. Always answer calls quickly, even if only to say 'sorry I'm booked that day(s).'

Some of these may give you less maony than they are getting for your position- if you are newer or do not have an established reputation this is most likely the case. If you have leverage you can take them up to (and occasionally exceeding) what they get for you.


Generally its a good experience. Think of them as an agent. They have people calling them who need workers, you are a worker looking for clients. I've onyl had a couple that really try to take advantage- they are the first to be turned down and the first to be crossed off of my list (to i took me years to get his far).

If you get on a job make sure to make friends and don't be afraid to inquire (in a nice way of course) about what the 'average' rates are...NEVER (unless you really know someone) ask what 'their' rate is- thats private. If you're getting lower thant he average don't work for that rate again...unless you really have to.

[Cameradude]

Here is my advice:

1) Do not give them your normal rate. Add the commission they charge into your rate.

2) Make sure they do not have a sliding scale for commissions. One agency is notorious for quoting a different commission every shoot.

I have mixed feelings on crewing companies. Personally, I don't care what they charge their client as long as I get my rate and my rate to them insures that. If their clients are that lazy and do not want to do the leg work then that is what they deserve.

I do probably one shoot per month for some crewing agency somewhere and turn down that many. Some are the usual 1/2 day inquiries and most of those are folks wanting something for nothing, or they want me to rent some camera I don't already own.

The biggest thing is to not agree to anything that you can not live with when things are really busy.

[Rutledge]

Sign up for any and all, you can make your own judgments along the way about whether it is worth it to give a percentage. The attitude of, this is my rate and I am not budging, is fine for guys with a lot of business and a long client list. However, I am guessing that is not where you are.
Bottom line is that when you are struggling or just starting out, you need to chase any potential work.
Don't let your ego get in the way.

[Baltimore Shooter]

Bottom line is that when you are struggling or just starting out, you need to chase any potential work. Don't let your ego get in the way.
Problem is, you set a precedence. If you give in just once, they'll expect you to do it again and again. Doesn't matter how busy you are or how long your client list is, you do it once and you'll be stuck.

Warren

[Cameradude]

"...you do it once and you'll be stuck..."

Very valid point. That is why I say you have to make decisions now based on what you are willing to do when the phone is ringing off the hook. There is nothing worse than taking a "cut rate deal" and then getting a call the same day for a "full rate deal".

[Rutledge]

My experience has been that the crewing companies have a business model that gets a set percentage of the day rate. Maybe I am being naive, but I don't think that they are negotiating with us, trying to screw us as much as they can. If you give them 15% that may very well beat sitting at home with your gear in a closet. Yes that crewing company will always want that deal from you, however, that doesn't mean that it sets a precedent for you with any other client.

You definitely have to have hard rates. I think you also need to know what you might be willing to negotiate to, given that a lot of those who call are going to try to talk you down.

I understand the argument that you set your rates and don't budge, it's easier, there is no negotiating and you don't want to be known as the guy who will work for anything. But sitting at home turning down work because it's $850 instead of $1000 doesn't seem very smart to me.

[Matt Box]

It just depends on how busy you are in general.

[Run&Gun]

But sitting at home turning down work because it's $850 instead of $1000 doesn't seem very smart to me.

I think it all depends on the variables mentioned earlier. If I tell a client that my rate is $1,000 for just me (one man band) and they say they'll only pay me $850, I'll sit at home and enjoy a day off or go to the lake. Once you cut a deal like that, you'll always be stuck there...

[Baltimore Shooter]

Once you cut a deal like that, you'll always be stuck there...

Bingo!

Warren

[Run&Gun]

Just to clarify a little bit, I thank God regularly that I'm in the fortunate position that I'm in, and I know that I could just as easily be digging a ditch or some other back-breaking, mind-numbing, low-paying job and I, like a lot of others here, am lucky enough to be doing something I really like and am able to make a very good living doing it. And I was just reminded of that this morning. My family owns an appliance/electronics retail store, where I worked in high school and my early years in college before I started freelancing. They called me yesterday and asked that if I wasn't working if I could help them out this morning because one of the regular guys was going to be out, so I said yes. On the way back from putting in a washer and dryer in a one bedroom apartment in a low-rent section of town, I was talking with my buddy that I was working with about taxes and money, and what he makes in an entire year, working 5 to 6 days a week, and supporting a wife and multiple kids, is about what I pay in taxes for the year, so I'm very humble and appreciative for what I make doing this kind of "work" and the lifestyle it lets me live.

Now to the point I want to make, we make good money any way you cut it, $850, $1,000, whatever for one days "work", but I look at clients trying to lowball me on my set rates or screw me out of overtime or mileage as a respect issue more than a money issue.

[Rutledge]

You are lucky and smart, Run and Gun. People like you and Warren, who have built successful businesses and can afford to say no when you sense disrespect, are who a lot of us are trying to emulate.
When things are tighter and you are not sure when the next call is going to come, I think pride tends to take a back seat.
Matte Box is right it depends on how busy you are and I will guess since i-shoot asked about crewing services that he/she is not busy enough.
So my humble advise, to those struggling or starting out, is to market, network and follow any leads that might get you work. The work is great and pays really well but your phone needs to ring or you don't make squat.

[Run&Gun]

So my humble advise, to those struggling or starting out, is to market, network and follow any leads that might get you work. The work is great and pays really well but your phone needs to ring or you don't make squat.

You hit the nail on the head. And always be nice to people, you never know when someone you ran into on a shoot or helped out in a pinch may be your door opener to the big leagues. It's happend to a lot of us that way.

[freedom]

I had one of those iffy sounding messages on my voicemail today. Funny how you can sense an unattractive offer coming. I was busy with a shoot but the client generously gave me a few minutes. So I called back and she had a shoot tomorrow one hour away and she was worried that that was too far! I wanted to cut to the chase so I told her flat out my 2 man rate was $1450 and she said that was way to much. I said bye bye and hung up. By the way, it was for Maury P!

[Matt Box]

Hah, Freedom, that sounds just like getting a call from Montell too!

[tubecamera-or-bust]

I know I'm late on getting in on this one but I happen to like the major crewing agencies. All but maybe one that I will never work for.

I don't mind their taking 12 or 15% off my rate as long as I own the gear. If I rent a camera I adjust to make sure the discount is not coming off the rental. To be honest, many of the crewing agencies offer me MORE than my standard day rate even with their discount.

They also have prequalified the clients so I have don't have to worry about getting my money in a timely fashion. Usually 30 to 45 days. Rarely more. Can you say that for your "regular" clients?

Also, there are a few that are just darn nice people to work for. Always polite and so pleased when I tell them I can do the work. They follow up with an email contract and we are good to go.

IMHO. Crewing companies, most of them, are professionals who do their job well and honestly. At least, that has been my experience over 20+ years or so.