Do the BBC actually train their camera people any more?

[SimonW]

I've had two projects I have been directly involved in on UK news this week. On both occasions the person filming them has made some cock up or another. The first one was reported on by a VJ. So we all know what to expect from that (and on top of their own suspect camerawork managed to show clips from my DVD in completely the wrong aspect ratio). A classic moment in the shoot came when the 'cameraman' complained that the Z1 he was using didn't like the shot he was taking because it kept focusing on the trees behind the interview subject! Great one MR, another well trained camera op!

Just yesterday I was shooting a comedy skit with a well known British comedy actor who had come out of retirement to be in it. As a result it made the news and the BBC actually made the effort to send out a real reporter, and what I thought was a real cameraman with a battle worn DSR-450 instead of the usual Z1 handycam bollocks. He certainly looked like a real cameraman. I could tell because of his terrible dress sense and the fact he was wearing wellington boots instead of normal shoes.

It turned out that despite us having lit the set with umpteen strategically placed lights of all sorts with precisely measured gels to allow the skin tones to be exposed properly at f-2.8 (or f-4/5.6 in interlace mode), and examined on a hardware waveform monitor and vectorscope to properly measure the levels, this guy still managed to expose the interview subjects face to the point of blow-out!

Now, I know there are lots of lighting questions here, and a lot of the time there isn't any time to do complex lighting setups for ENG. But for crying out loud, if you ever have to shoot on a film set or TV studio set that has been carefully lit, please make sure that you get a decent exposure. There is hardly an excuse not to in that situation!

So, Mr Wellington Boot wearing Midlands Today cameraman, if you hang out here, what gives?

[cameradog]

He certainly looked like a real cameraman. I could tell because of his terrible dress sense and the fact he was wearing wellington boots instead of normal shoes.

http://www.withnail-and-i.com/pictures/thumbs/misc13.jpg
http://www.withnail-and-i.com/pictures/thumbs/monty03.jpg
What on earth are those?

http://www.withnail-and-i.com/pictures/thumbs/both06.jpg
Oh, we forgot to bring our wellingtons.

http://www.withnail-and-i.com/pictures/thumbs/monty07.jpg
You mean you've been up here in all this beastly mud and oomska without wellingtons? This afternoon I'll take you both into Penryth and get you fitted with some good quality rubber boots.

[cameradog]

http://www.withnail-and-i.com/pictures/thumbs/monty06.jpg
Now, you get the wellingtons. I'm going to but some razors and shaving soap. I'll meet you here in half an hour.

http://www.withnail-and-i.com/pictures/thumbs/withnail02.jpg
I think a drink don't you?

http://www.withnail-and-i.com/pictures/thumbs/marwood11.jpg
What about the wellingtons?

http://www.withnail-and-i.com/pictures/both12.jpg
Oh, bollocks to the wellingtons. We'll tell him there was a farmer's conference and they had a run on them.

[Nooze Hound]

that guys not british... his teeth are FAR too straight!

[Matt Box]

Anyway, yes Simon I do agree that our British friends are not cranking out the quality they used to. Back when I used to work for ITN it was at the very tail end of the days when apprenticeships were required prior to picking up a camera. All of the cameramen had been soundmen for some time before getting to use the camera. I honestly think the creation of the no budget Channel 5 started the trend at ITN. Now they are totally happy to use handycams and turn out crap looking reports every night of the week. The Beeb still turns out some quality, but not so much in the news division.

[pre-set]

He certainly looked like a real cameraman. I could tell because of his terrible dress sense and the fact he was wearing wellington boots instead of normal shoes.




Get bent......

[cameragod]

Nah if the guy was regional BBC they have always been sheltered workshops for a few guys who sucked. All the attitude and none of the ability. I remember a BBC Midlands plonker turn up to a museum opening late and stopped the ceremony halfway though because they hadn’t arranged a car park for him. Then he wanted them to redo it once a park was found. It was embarrassing for everyone.
Then there was the BBC reporter that had a disabled car towed from a disabled car park so their live truck was nearer the Manchester Courthouse. The poor SOB turned up in his wheelchair and couldn’t find his car.
Or the BBC cameraman who said to me “It’s all very well you being creative but there is a time and place for everything.”
As for C5 well it was supposed to be cheap child labor but it didn’t work so they hired a lot of experienced freelancers to fix it up and do the training… but they never admitted to that.

[SimonW]

Pre-set, what do you mean? Can't take a bit of ribbing? I'm a camera op myself don't forget! Although I have better dress sense than Midlands Today camera ops ;)

All the attitude and none of the ability.

Seemingly. He wasn't very approachable either. I was the DP on the shoot in question, and this guy wasn't very amiable when I asked him a few questions (he wasn't working at the time because he was waiting for all the bedlam with the press photogs to be calmed down).

Interestingly, despite the BBC saying a while ago that they were not going to purchase any more SD equipment, he was using a BBC owned DSR-450.

[cameradog]

Seemingly. He wasn't very approachable either. I was the DP on the shoot in question, and this guy wasn't very amiable when I asked him a few questions (he wasn't working at the time because he was waiting for all the bedlam with the press photogs to be calmed down).

Perhaps he was intimidated, and what you interpreted as not being approachable was really just a protection mechanism.

[The Toplens]

Let me stick my staff BBC cameraman hat on... and then take the gloves off!!

Firstly, do we train our cameramen? Yes and no I'm afraid. In the regions we are all multi-skilled. Usually doing studio, eng, floor manager, editing, sound, sng etc... we tried to have it that you would do your main core skill and two others. But now with budget cuts we do every kind of shift - and people with no concept of shooting end up having a weeks worth of training from one of the other crews, and the same goes for studio sound and editing.

Another big minus on our part is the wages that we pay - you are not going to get a decent/exprienced cameraman/editor/director for what's on offer. So we get a lot of students applying for jobs and because they'll work for s***e all they get taken on! As it must be the case everywhere, there are some really talented people and there is some absolute s***.

.....A classic moment in the shoot came when the 'cameraman' complained that the Z1 he was using didn't like the shot he was taking because it kept focusing on the trees behind the interview subject.....

Z1... wow Birmingham must have some spare cash! Our VJ's get PD170's!

We had a classsic case the other month when a VJ asked to borrow a real camera. First question.... how do I make the viewfinder colour? Second question.... where's the auto focus? Third question... why are you laughing?

..... it made the news and the BBC actually made the effort to send out a real reporter, and what I thought was a real cameraman with a battle worn DSR-450 instead of the usual Z1 handycam bollocks. He certainly looked like a real cameraman. It turned out that despite us having lit the set with umpteen strategically placed lights.....this guy still managed to expose the interview subjects face to the point of blow-out!

The BBC has a tonne of DSR500's and a few DSR570's. I didn't know we had the 450.

I can't comment for the Midlands area but we in the north have been using the same DSR500's since they replaced our cherished BVW400's. Now 6 years down the line they have started to show signs of age. None of our road kits have ever had a head replaced or a service!!! EVER! Not because they are robust but because there is no time or budget. The newsdesk now complain daily about the rushes coming in with dropout and crews coming back with nothing because a fault in the camera has put the tally lights on but not bothered to record anything to tape. Everyday 4 out of 5 of the road crews will take the camera to maintenance to be repiared - but as there are no replacement cameras nothing gets done till the weekend.... when nothing gets resolved because parts have to be ordered.... so the kit gets put back into service...

We complain like mad, but just get told that there's no money left for extravagence - excuse me but getting pictures on the TV everyday is not an extravagance... it's our bloody core business!

if the guy was regional BBC they have always been sheltered workshops for a few guys who sucked. All the attitude and none of the ability.

Not quite the case... it did happen a long time ago.
In our newsroom most of our road crews are all TV veterans. 3 of us trained with the BBC when we had to do a 2 year apprenticeship before we were allowed on air, 2 used to be freelance and know their stuff and 2 were former picture editors. We have one guy though who was forced into being a road crew - he dosen't like it, he doesn't want to do it and admits that he isn't very good at it.

Some newsrooms in the BBC only have one or two proper road crews and the rest are all VJ's.

.....So, Mr Wellington Boot wearing Midlands Today cameraman, if you hang out here, what gives?

I can't speak for him but probably was foeced onto the road and doesn't want to do it or couldn't give a monkey's fat arse about it and wants redundancy or early retirement!

I have never known a place with such low morale like there is at the BBC at the moment. We get screwed no matter what.

They waste so much PUBLIC money that it's obscene.

The BBC want to sell off TV Centre in London (with 10 production studios) and move everyone to a new purpose built studio centre in Manchester (which is 250 miles North). They say it's becasue they want to be non-London-centric. Well over the last 3 years the BBC has demolished 3 studios in Birmingham, 2 in Leeds, gutted 2 in Manchester, closed 1 in Bristol and sold 1 in Norwich. All this was to save money.

The BBC want to launch "local tv". It'll be run by VJ's and will appear on the web and on a satellite channel mulitplex. It'll be an hourly rolling service shared out between 16 regions in each hour...

In my humble opinion the BBC will not be around in 5 to 10 years. The age of amazing public service broadcasting, quality programming and BBC developed technology in the UK is coming to an end.

R.I.P. BBC Television


Rant over.....

[Baltimore Shooter]

Wow Toplens, bummer to hear that. Used to be the BBC was one of the highest quality broadcasters in the world.

Guess that's what happens when a MR type gets there. And let me guess, since the VJ model was instituted, they have lost viewers AND funding, right?

Wonder if the producers of Top Gear are hiring.

Warren

[The Toplens]

Wonder if the producers of Top Gear are hiring.



They've all been freelance for years... 021 Television do it for the BBC!

[SimonW]

Z1... wow Birmingham must have some spare cash! Our VJ's get PD170's!


Hehe! Actually most of the VJ's I have seen have been using Z1's.


We had a classsic case the other month when a VJ asked to borrow a real camera. First question.... how do I make the viewfinder colour? Second question.... where's the auto focus? Third question... why are you laughing?


They did two days shooting for the story about my DVD. They went to interview someone who was involved in it on the second day and I was originally going to be there as well. In the end they did it on their own, but I wish I had gone. The interview I saw on the television consisted of of the interview subjects chin BELOW the bottom of frame, while she was sat right up against a plain white wall in low light!


The BBC has a tonne of DSR500's and a few DSR570's. I didn't know we had the 450.


It surprised me, slightly. I have occasionally seen 450's in the news trailers when they have used two camera. But yes, this guy a 450 that looked like it had been in use for the past 25 years! I asked him jokingly if the camera was his or the BBC's. He said it was the property of the BBC. So I jokingly asked/stated the BBC had decided to spend some money (in reference to the 450) and he grumpily said "no!". Oh well. Usually I like to get the details of any other pro camera people I encounter in case I need to hire anyone in.

I can't comment for the Midlands area but we in the north have been using the same DSR500's since they replaced our cherished BVW400's. Now 6 years down the line they have started to show signs of age. None of our road kits have ever had a head


See if you can nick the ones they use for training at Wood Norton. They appear to be in good condition! Barely a scratch on them actually. Then again it was a while ago so they too might be shagged now.


back with nothing because a fault in the camera has put the tally lights on but not bothered to record anything to tape. Everyday 4


I can't wait for their high def service ;)


I have never known a place with such low morale like there is at the BBC at the moment. We get screwed no matter what.


Toplens, are you freelance as well, or full time staff?

In my humble opinion the BBC will not be around in 5 to 10 years. The age of amazing public service broadcasting, quality programming and BBC developed technology in the UK is coming to an end.

It doesn't sound good. The BBC are moving very slowly to tapeless and want to be fully tapeless by 2010. ITV on the other hand want to be tapeless within the next year. I know someone who is helping to supervise and devise the systems they will be using. And it seems that they really want it done yesterday.

R.I.P. BBC Television


Rant over.....[/QUOTE]

[The Toplens]

No I'm a rare breed of staff cameraman at the BBC! Maybe not for much longer!

ITN were supposed to be going P2, but according the Sony press release ITN are going DVCam for the next 5 years!!

We must organise a UK B-roll night Simon and have a few beers

[SimonW]

I'm always up for a beer!

Maybe our welly wearing friend might turn up and I can ask why his exposure is so bad! ;)

But seriously, yes, that would be a great idea. Whereabouts are you based again?

[The Toplens]

nah, he sounds like he'd be too tight to buy a beer!

I'm based in Leeds and Manchester...