SPX800 Power Problem

[Bismarck]

We have a crew out in Las Vegas shooting on an SPX800 that is having a severe power problem. They are using 3 Anton Bauer batteries: Hytron 140, Hytron 120, and a Dionic 90. When they put a battery on that has a full charge, it reads somewhere between 15.5v and 16.1v, depending on the battery. The problem is that the voltage quickly drops to around 12v within a matter of minutes, and this is without any extra draw on the battery such as a light.

I have spoken with the crew and the menu settings for the battery are as they should be, just the same as the rest of our cameras, so that hasn’t changed.

If any of you can think of a possible cause for the problem they’re having, I'd appreciate it. The charger seems to be working properly because it pumps the batteries up to 16+ volts (and the meter window on the batteries says they're full), and yet none of the battery menu settings on the camera have changed.

So, I'm somewhat vexed.

[Nooze Hound]

does it hold at 12 for a while?

what is the cut off point when the camera shuts down?

[Bismarck]

We all our cameras using the NiCAD 12 battery setting, which has always worked out to be the best. The shut-off for that setting is something like 11.2v.

The thing is, that camera has been working fine until now, and those batteries have been working fine until now, and the charger definitely seems to be working fine.

[Bismarck]

Oh, and no, from what they're telling me, it's not holding at 12 very long at all. They're literally getting a few soundbites and a couple minutes of b-roll out of each battery, which of course is absurd.

[Hiding Under Here]

What does the power meter on the camera indicate when you hook it up to AC power?

[Hiding Under Here]

Also, if you have an Anton Bauer adapter plate that has a tap for a camera light on it you can charge a battery and then run the camera light off the battery. Watching what the camera light does will tell you something about the batteries. If one of the batteries involved in this problem powers the camera light (about 20 watts -- a camera is between 25 and 30 watts generally) for a good deal of time, then the batteries ARE being charged correctly.

However, if the battery light goes out quickly, then the batteries themselves are being faultily charged.

I suspect there is something wrong with the charger. Or else the camera has some kind of short that is creating huge current draw. But if that was the case, the camera would be exhibiting even bigger problems.

Is the camera running hotter than usual?

[Bismarck]

They don't have a power supply with them, so I don't know. Normally though, our cameras read right around 13.3v when we use AC power.

[Hiding Under Here]

But you can see that the two obvious problems are 1. The batteries are not being charged correctly regardless of what the meters say or 2. The camera is discharging them too quickly.

So you have to isolate the problem. Batteries? Or camera?

[Hiding Under Here]

You can isolate the batteries by using one of them to power something else up. If you put a volt meter on it, it will read that it's okay. You need to stress it, to make it work.

If it's a camera problem, isolating the issue is more tricky. But if you can rule out (or in) the batteries, you have effectively identified whether the camera is the problem.

Most battery chargers these days act as power supplies. Doesn't your crew have a four pin cable to run from the charger to the camera?

If you can power up the camera with the AC/Battery supply, the meter on the camera might tell you something.

[Bismarck]

Well, we're about to find out. They're going to rent some more 140s from Bexel out there, and if those croak in 10 minutes, then it's the camera.

How the hell the camera alone could be drawing that much power is beyond me, though. It has its own circuit breaker, the battery mount has a fuse, and the batteries themselves have a fuse. So if it really is the camera, then I'm baffled.

They're using a Titan Twin charger, so no power supply for them.

[Hiding Under Here]

I don't think it's the camera either. Unless it's happening right at the power source -- a pinched wire, a bad fuse.

[Bismarck]

Hmm, well, early evidence is beginning to suggest that the Frezzi may be the culprit. They were having the power drop even when the light was turned off, but now that they've physically unplugged it, the problem isn't as severe. Still, their Dionic 90 is down to 13.5v after only about 45 minutes of use without the light. The P2 draws less than 30 watts when recording without the light, so that's still a bit odd. Maybe something bizarre is going on with the battery plate circuitry?

[Sportsguy]

When was the last time the batteries were calibrated on the charger? The charger may think it's fully charged when it's actually not.

[Bismarck]

We don't run diagnostic tests on them very often; pretty much only when one of them is showing some kind of bizarre behavior. All of our batteries charger on Quad Chargers overnight though. And the 140 they have is only a few months old.

These batteries will certainly be checked out when they return though.

[Canonman]

Hmm, well, early evidence is beginning to suggest that the Frezzi may be the culprit. They were having the power drop even when the light was turned off, but now that they've physically unplugged it, the problem isn't as severe.

Since physically unplugging the Frezzi light removed the excess drain on the battery, I'd say you have a partially shorted wiring harness on the light. I say partially because a dead short would pop a fuse due to unlimited current draw. Look for a frayed wire or possibly a split in the insulation where the + side might have rubbed against the camera body enough to start conducting. I've seen this happen many times on many different pieces of equipment, including automobiles. If an ohmmeter is available, put the probe tips into each of the frezzi connector pins while unplugged and turned off. It should read infinite resistance. Try to move or wiggle the wiring while the probes are held firmly in place. Any registration on the meter would reveal a faulty wiring harness (unless the probe tips briefly touch).

cm

[Bismarck]

Wow, ok thanks.

[Run&Gun]

How old are the batteries? I've had all of my A/B Hytron 120's replaced under warranty because after about a year or two, they all started crashing with almost no warning. They would indicate over an hour left and die in less than 10 or 15 mins. I see you have a mix of designs, not just 120's, so this may not be the only problem you(they) have. A/B has always been great about handling warranty issues with me. They are very quick to get loaners and replacements out. I've never asked them directly, but I feel there was a design flaw(or some technical problem) with the Hytron 120's and that's why they discontinued them(you can only get 100's or 140's, now). EVERYONE I know that has or uses Hytron 120's has had the same problem. I also have a 140 that is only a couple of months old(it was a warranty replacement), the date on the charger says it was made the day before it was shipped to me, and it seems to self discharge very quickly. Some of my other batteries can sit around for weeks and only self discharge a little, but the NEW 140 seems to completely discharge in about a week. It does do extremely well when "hot" and on the camera, though...

Run a diagnostic cycle on each battery in question, if the discharge rate is low(less than 6 amp hours) call A/B and send them in for testing/replacement.

[Bismarck]

Yeah, they've been replacing our 120s when we send them in. We're definitely going to take a close look at the batteries when they get back, but I'm thinking they aren't the problem.

Anyway, the 120 and the Dionic are maybe 1.5 - 2 years old. The 140 we bought maybe 5 or 6 months ago I'd guess.

[skeyworth]

Anton/Bauer Tech Support/Service 1800 phone number.

1-800.541.1667

Guys call our service department whenever you have a problem. They can help you isolate the cause. They are there to help.

Scott Keyworth
Anton/Bauer

[Nooze Hound]

cool, a/b rep on the board.

convenient!!

[Bismarck]

Well, it turns out it that it must be the batteries. They rented some 140s from Bexel out there, and their problems are gone.

The weird thing is, all three of the batteries they took out there get used on a daily basis by our crews, and no one has mentioned any problem with any of them. So either no one was paying attention, or all 3 of the batteries mysteriously developed the same problem at the same time when they went out there. If that's the case, then I'm baffled.

Anyway, looks like I'll be calling skeyworth in a few days, because all 3 of those things are going to be sent in for a checkup when they get back.