Picking your brain on a full setup

[IraJK]

I am in the process of creating a couple proposals to start up a small production company. My main goal is to do everything in HD. As stated, I am creating a couple proposals. High, mid and low price range. I am doing this for the The shooting side and for the post side.

With this being said, I want to pick you brain. For the high end shooting side. This is what I’ve come up with.

Panasonic AJ-HPC2000 $27K or Sony HDW-730S HDCAM $55k I think the 750 might be pushing to high at $70k.

I’ve always been a canon fan so I’ll stick with them. So I’ll throw in the HJ17ex7.7B Series


Now it’s the audio. I’m having a little trouble selecting this area. I am looking at the Lectrosonics. Most likely 2 setups but hoping for 3
UCR411A Digital Hybrid Wireless™ Compact Receiver
UM400 Digital Hybrid Wireless™ UHF Belt Pack Transmitter
UH400A Digital Hybrid Wireless™ UHF Plug-on Transmitter

Any suggestions to any of these options?

With this rig I will also throw in the Panasonic AG-HVX200 if I go with Panasonic

[Shootblue]

I hope you get more positive responses than I got. I'm curious to see what reasons they come up with to knock you down.

[freedom]

Hi end HD would have to be the Varicam or the F900. Anything less wouldn't be Hi End.

[Nino]

Shootblue you are becoming cynical, there's no reason for that.
I don’t think that I'll be knocking anybody down by saying that no one can give a good answer if this is the right package or not without knowing for what type of work it will be used for, don’t you think so?

That’s a fairly impressive partial package for a start-up operation; however, camera and wireless alone do not make a quality package. To start up an operation you'll also need mikes, sound mixer, lights or grips.

[IraJK]

Shootblue you are becoming cynical, there's no reason for that.
I don’t think that I'll be knocking anybody down by saying that no one can give a good answer if this is the right package or not without knowing for what type of work it will be used for, don’t you think so?

That’s a fairly impressive partial package for a start-up operation; however, camera and wireless alone do not make a quality package. To start up an operation you'll also need mikes, sound mixer, lights or grips.


I forgot to mention that i have some things already. pretty full lowel light kit along with 1 HMI. I am still working out the audio portion. For what we want to do I think the wireless lav will hold us over. I'm not sure if we will need a shotgun and boom. But this could change. Im not to sure on a sound mixer. We are working as a 2 person adventure.

Nono, we've chatted before. My first login was rookiephotog about 5-6 years ago. I, for the life of me can't remember my password.

[Baltimore Shooter]

No offense IraJK, but you'll want to invest in a good light kit too. The Lowell kit won't get you anything more than news work and I get the feeling you're looking at work such as docs, magazine shows, etc. A good Arri kit or 2 like the Softbank series is an investment worth every penny.

Warren

[Shootblue]

I would address every single item you will need. Grab the B and H magazine and get some starter ideas. Then go to the web and start looking at what you really need. In the end, you will have a bigger number than you imagined. It seems like each item has accessories and the accessories have accessories. The camera has the matte box which has the mount and the filters and the filter cases. The tripod has the sticks, the head, the carrying case. The lights have the fixtures which need bulbs which need spare bulbs. Light cases. Barndoors. Gel clips. Gels. Gel holder. Softbox. Grids. Baffles. Cases again. You get the idea...some of these things you may find you may never use or can get by without for awhile. But a lot of them are neccesary. I would have 25 contacts with ten of them ready to sign on to cash in your pocket kind of productions. That might be a bit overboard, but it's not far from the truth. I'd set it up as a corporation so as to not put yourself in financial jeopardy. It's easy to say that you can get the stuff until you don't. All things I am looking at too.

[Todio]

On the audio side I applaud the Lectro 411 choice. But great wireless is only as good as the microphone. I'd suggest no lower than Tram 50 mics (if you have the budget go for Sanken Cos11 mics)

Invest in a high quality shotgun and boom pole too. I'd suggest the workhorse Sennheiser 416. Get a Rycote softie windscreen and mount (or a Rycote zeppelin and wind protection) For pole go for a carbon fiber model (K-Tek makes great ones). Some are internally cabled and that makes swinging the boom a breeze (although there's a skill-set in dealing with the internal cable not having it slap the inside of the pole, but that just takes experience)

Don't skimp on cables!! Get well-shielded ones. Nothing screws up sound faster than transient hums and buzzes.

I'd suggest getting a mixer too (especially if you're thinking of at least three wireless mics) I'd suggest that the lowest you want to consider is the Sound Devices 302. It sounds great and is super rugged. Sound Devices also makes a 442 which is a huge step up but might be more than you need.

Good luck! On the other hand, why not just hire a good sound recordist and forget the whole thing!

[Hiding Under Here]

Just FYI. www.bpcvalue has a SONY HDW 730 for sale for $35K. Too Bad, they also had a Fujinon 20x7.5 HD lens for sale for $11,750. But that sold yesterday. I was tempted to buy it myself just because it was so cheap. I told a few people about it but they balked.

[Shootblue]

I find it interesting how someone can suggest quality productions for companies and it's bad, but spending upwards of a hundred grand for an all HD package is ok.

[freedom]

What they are suggesting is that doing quality productions for peanuts is bad. Doing quality work on a quality budget is very good.

[freedom]

Ira JK
I have a 4 channel mixer, 4 lectro wireless, 2 fishpoles, 2 shotguns, 2 hypercardioids, 10 lav mics, timecode cassette and a boatload of accessories and I don't feel my audio package is quite 'hi end'.

I have a large chimera, a medium chimera and 2 small chimeras, 10 quartz fixtures, a 575 & 1200 HMI, 5 c-stands, a box of cables, 8 shot bags and a boatload of accesories and I don't feel my lighting package is quite 'hi end'.
A 'hi end' client would see your limited accesories and walk away. An HD camera and a few of the latest Lectro wireless does not make a 'hi end' package.
And you'll need a 'hi end' demo reel to go with it. Gear alone makes up about 20% of the equasion. I'm shooting more and more 'hi end' HD but I don't own any HD cameras.

[IraJK]

Ira JK
I have a 4 channel mixer, 4 lectro wireless, 2 fishpoles, 2 shotguns, 2 hypercardioids, 10 lav mics, timecode cassette and a boatload of accessories and I don't feel my audio package is quite 'hi end'.

I have a large chimera, a medium chimera and 2 small chimeras, 10 quartz fixtures, a 575 & 1200 HMI, 5 c-stands, a box of cables, 8 shot bags and a boatload of accesories and I don't feel my lighting package is quite 'hi end'.
A 'hi end' client would see your limited accesories and walk away. An HD camera and a few of the latest Lectro wireless does not make a 'hi end' package.
And you'll need a 'hi end' demo reel to go with it. Gear alone makes up about 20% of the equasion. I'm shooting more and more 'hi end' HD but I don't own any HD cameras.


I guess HI-end was the wrong term to use. Please don't be insulted. What do you mean you shoot more and more "hi end" hd and don't own a hd camera? do you rent.
I have a huge oppertunity to partner with someone that will front the $$$ This is as far as I want to go with that. I am putting together a couple proposals. The lowest one will be with the P2 AG-HVX200. But don't want to go in that direction.

[IraJK]

No offense IraJK, but you'll want to invest in a good light kit too. The Lowell kit won't get you anything more than news work and I get the feeling you're looking at work such as docs, magazine shows, etc. A good Arri kit or 2 like the Softbank series is an investment worth every penny.

Warren


No offense taken. Looking for advise. I am sure everyone here has been when i am now. I am trying to figure enerything out. Educating myself so that i don't land on my butt.

I currently use 2 arri's for work. What makes them stand out from the lowels? I am not married to Lowel's. Thanks for the softbank suggestion

[Baltimore Shooter]

I guess HI-end was the wrong term to use. Please don't be insulted. What do you mean you shoot more and more "hi end" hd and don't own a hd camera? do you rent.
I have a huge oppertunity to partner with someone that will front the $$$ This is as far as I want to go with that. I am putting together a couple proposals. The lowest one will be with the P2 AG-HVX200. But don't want to go in that direction.

The words "high end" and "AG-HVX200" can not be used together in the same sentence. It's an oxy-moron, as is anyone who claims it is high end (but without the oxy part). If you're gonna go "high end" HD, then, as Freedom said, you should be going for the F-900 or the Vericam.

Warren

[IraJK]

The words "high end" and "AG-HVX200" can not be used together in the same sentence. It's an oxy-moron, as is anyone who claims it is high end (but without the oxy part). If you're gonna go "high end" HD, then, as Freedom said, you should be going for the F-900 or the Vericam.

Warren


I knew I was going to get that.

HVX200 is going to be used as an underwater camera.

[Star Video]

An HDW730 is going to be quite comparible to an F900 in 1080i mode, one's 8bit, and the other 12bit, but not that much difference. I consider 730 and 750 "midrange of the high-end" i mean come on, High end is actually HDCAM SR, which whoops the F900, "my daddy can beat up your daddy" kind of thing.

Unfortunately, in the HDCAM realm, most clients will specifically ask for an F-900, so I would think about getting a used one. I would only get a 730 if I had specific clients that are okay with 1080i only HDCAM.

What about Panasonics HDX-900? It's switchable between 1080i and 720p, if 1080i DVCPro HD is okay, you should consider that camera.

Most important, be sure you know what your clients will want to shoot on, that's the bottom line.

[Run&Gun]

With the state of HD right now, if I was in Ira's shoes, I would seriously think about getting just really nice support gear(lights, grip, audio)(basically everything but the camera) right now and renting a camera when needed. Your support gear isn't going to become obsolete if there is a format change or you bet on the wrong horse, so to speak, but your camera...

With that being said, camera wise, you need to go F-900 or Varicam in the freelance world, unless you have a contract gauranteeing you a lot of days with X camera that's not one of the two aforementioned expensive beasts.

I'm not buying an HD camera until my main client says I need to(which may be sooner than later, now), and I prefer the 900 over the Varicam, but more than likely, I'll be buying a Varicam because of them. Know what your client(s) want!!!

[Hiding Under Here]

Dudes, get a grip. Any full sized HD camera is "high end". People are splitting hairs here. HD is high end. The F900 is (in a relative way) the top of the chain. The Varicam is excellent. I'm sure the HDX900 will be a wonderful rig. And the 2/3" XD HDCam -- if it ever get to market -- will probably be the bomb. In fact, the 1/2" HD XDCam could also (most likely) be used in such a way that it produced images that would satify those who seek high end production values.

Is Leaving Las Vegas (shot on Super 16mm) "high end"? of course it is. Is Seinfeld, Comedian, shot on MiniDV "high end"? Not it is not.

High end production cannot ONLY be about the camera. There was plenty of low end production being done with allegedly high end gear back in the day when high end was a very narrow term defined by the employment of a $45K Betacam. High end HAS to mean something more than merely one's ability to show up with the fanciest camera on the market. It has to mean something like "we're trying really hard, with all of our collective abilities, to make pictures that are as flawless as possible in an effort to create content that will MATTER to somebody". And you can do that with an HDX900 (I'm guessing) as surely as you can with an F900.

By the way, I just got notice that someone I know is selling a pristine Varicam. Anyone interested drop me a line at t.fahey@comcast.net. I know it's not the F900. But it's a pretty damn good camera.

[freedom]

Ira
I rent the flavor of the month. As others have said, there's too many formats to choose right now.
Do you have a client that can guarantee use of a certain format? If not, then you can be assured that right after you buy a varicam, you will get calls for the F900.
I have a client that will accept the 730 instead of the F900 as they only do 1080i and not 24P. But they tested and rejected the current XDCAM HD.
The HDX900 was mentioned. It is probably going to make very nice pictures but if you have a 1080i client, they probably have Sony HDCAM decks so the DVC tape will not work.
A very tough time for freelancers who make good money off camera rentals.
I would work on expanding that audio/lighting package and rent HD as necessary.

[IraJK]

With the state of HD right now, if I was in Ira's shoes, I would seriously think about getting just really nice support gear(lights, grip, audio)(basically everything but the camera) right now and renting a camera when needed. Your support gear isn't going to become obsolete if there is a format change or you bet on the wrong horse, so to speak, but your camera...

With that being said, camera wise, you need to go F-900 or Varicam in the freelance world, unless you have a contract gauranteeing you a lot of days with X camera that's not one of the two aforementioned expensive beasts.

I'm not buying an HD camera until my main client says I need to(which may be sooner than later, now), and I prefer the 900 over the Varicam, but more than likely, I'll be buying a Varicam because of them. Know what your client(s) want!!!


I've been thinking about this. For what I am looking to do this might be my option if i don't get all of my funding at once.

[Run&Gun]

Definetly something to think about. The camera is the flashy center piece, but only one small part of a package. I was working on an HD series that went from SD to mostly HD about three years ago and has now been cancelled. I didn't, and don't currently, own an HD camera. It (F-900) was rented for me to use, but I still used, and got the rentals off of, the rest of my gear(lights, audio, grip, support and even my own HD lens at the end when the situation called for it) which put me back in the ballpark of an SD camera pkg dayrate.

[must-c-tv]

Agreed.

At this stage in HD evolution, I would suggest buying everything BUT the camera body - HD lens, the Lectro wireless and all the other tools mentioned here won't go out of date.

But, in my personal opinion, things are too fluid to bet on one format.....