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must-c-tv
07-26-2006, 11:09 AM
Greetings from Tehran! I'm having a nice little war - the network that I 'permalance' for sent us here to Iran to cover Hizbollah puppet master reax from here - so I get to stay in a 5 star hotel and watch the Beirut bang-bang from a distance for a change. There's nothing going here besides the usual demos.

Anyway.....

Before heading out, a bright management spark at the London bureau asked me to take a HD XDCam 350 out as a test. I think he was having a few pints with a friendly Sony rep earlier....

This doesn't mean my network is going with this camera (in fact I know they aren't switching to HD overseas until a solution is found for HD feeding to New York) so this is a very limited experiment.

So, here I am, bored in Iran testing a new camera for the last two weeks. I'm still shooting everything for broadcast on my SX, and take the two cameras with me in the field. I'm not editing or transmitting HD XDCam (impossible from Iran TV anyway) -- just giving it a test in the heat and dust by shooting every day some extra b-roll with it.

The camera is straight from Sony. I haven't changed any settings. I have the (crap!) stock 19x lens, and the 1/2 to 2/3 adapter that I use with my Fujinon 13x4.5. I don't have access to an engineer here, or even a wave form monitor or HD monitor.

Just lots of heat, dust and sand to shoot in.

A few things positive:

- it's a good work flow system. Looking at the thumbnails is very cool.
- the camera gets really physically hot (much more than a Betacam) which is worrying but everything works fine.
- the lens adapter is small, and seems to be rugged. It does cut down the field of view dramatically, but my 13x lens is so wide that it isn't that bad. I have stuck my 20x telephoto lens on, and that is really limiting.
- the 24P function is nice, and the ability to easily undercrank and overcrank is cool. I do US network news and magazine shows, so won't use this function often. but it is handy.
- the menus are clearly laid out. The learning curve from picking up this camera to shooting is pretty quick.
- the tape stock seems pretty reliable. No dropouts, problems or anything (except we could only get TDK - Sony XDCam stock was scarce in London). Viewing the footage in the field without having to worry about wear and tear on the heads is very cool.

A few negative things:

- the contrast range on the camera I have here is HORRIBLE. In bright sunlight the HD XDCam sample camera (and I only have one, so it may be a fluke) blows out easily. I have lined the two cameras (my SX and the HD XDCam) up and the SX is much more forgiving.

- if you aren't in the desert like I am now, this may not be so apparent. But I'm shooting guys with dark beards and turbans against bright skies. Yes - that is usually tough, BUT - I can achieve a much better uniform exposure with my SX than the Sony HD XDCam. I have lined the two cameras up side by side - and the SX is so much more forgiving with exposure.

- The Sony XDCam comes with a standard white clip level of 108 IRE, but even adjusting it down to 100 IRE the HD XDCam still blows out.

- for news, this is a major pain.

- in low light, this sample camera here is ALSO rotten compared to the SX. I know the Sony HD XDCam is rated F9 at 2000lux, with the SX at f11 at 2000lux, but in reality lighting an interview I have found it to be at LEAST 2 stops less sensitive than my SX.

- my usual basic light kit for the Middle East (where power is an issue, and you have to be quick)is 3 Dedo's and a Rifa 44. With the SX, those small lights are perfect. But again, lining both my SX and HD XDCam cameras up side-by-side in a interview, I was fine at F 2.8 with the SX, and still in the dark with the HD XDCam.

- I, frankly, don't know enough about HD to know whether HD cameras inherently have a more limited contrast range than 4:2:2 SX. I'm sure someone here will enlighten me ... personally, I don't spend my spare time reading technical papers. And this individual Sony test camera may be a fluke. But the contrast range of this camera is so limiting, it would stop me from buying it. The HD pictures looks great in nice light, but not in extremes.

Other negative things:

- the LCD is a bit cheap and shoddy. I certainly wouldn't use it for exposure or focusing.

- I can't find the breaker button on the camera (usually at the bottom of Betacams). If you are unfortunate to be near a large explosion, the concussive force can sometimes 'stop' the camera - so you have to hit the breaker button to reset and get the camera going again.

- white balancing takes a long time. Again, not sure why...

- there is a silly W:P preset button between 3200 and 5600. It's a soft, easy to push button. I think the D50 also has this. The bloody idiot that I am, a couple of times I accidentally hit this as the camera on the strap bumped my waist when carrying it. I didn't see the 3200k light up in the viewfinder, and so shot blue pictures for a little while. Now that I know the Preset push button is there, I look out for it, but it seems a bit silly to me.

All in all, I like the XDCam HD work flow, the pictures are great in the right lighting, and the camera is more rugged than I expected. But the contrast range, at least in this test camera, is really limiting. I'm anxious to plug it into a waveform back in Blighty for a more comprehensive test.

Anyway, those are my testing experiences from Iran for those of you interested.. I'm now off to the pool .... where there aren't any girls in bikini's, or beer..... just bearded men in suits.

Lovely.

SimonW
07-26-2006, 12:26 PM
- the contrast range on the camera I have here is HORRIBLE. In bright sunlight the HD XDCam sample camera (and I only have one, so it may be a fluke) blows out easily. I have lined the two cameras (my SX and the HD XDCam) up and the SX is much more forgiving.

You'll get a nicer result by changing the gamma table to Cine and using either Cine 2 for extremely wide contrast range (gives a flat look that needs compensating for in post), or Cine 4 for more normal shooting (Cine 4 looks similar to the STD gamma, but with advantages). Both Cines will roll off the highlights nicely and give you much more range than the STD gamma. Go to the Paint Menu, and then Gamma Select.

As an example of how much range can be achieved, I managed to shoot an interior with Cine 2 on a very bright sunny day and still see the view outside of the window quite nicely.

he bloody idiot that I am, a couple of times I accidentally hit this as the camera on the strap bumped my waist when carrying it.

That worried me too. Although luckily I didn't knock it. I also found that my test camera, although the filter was switched to 5600k, actually had 6300k programmed in on the viewfinder. Whether someone had set my camera up for a warmer look I don't know.

I, frankly, don't know enough about HD to know whether HD cameras inherently have a more limited contrast range than 4:2:2 SX

Most have a lot more. With tweaking. A Varicam can actually be adjusted using the BBC's recommended filmlook settings devised by Alan Roberts to achieve at least 12 stops of captured range (I believe Alan told me 13 stops once). An F900 can also be set up for a very wide range. With HD it is better to under expose a little under what you normally would shoot.

white balancing takes a long time. Again, not sure why...

Interesting. On my test camera I found it to be almost instant.

Canonman
07-26-2006, 01:22 PM
I also found that my test camera, although the filter was switched to 5600k, actually had 6300k programmed in on the viewfinder. Whether someone had set my camera up for a warmer look I don't know.

Yes, you can actually apply offsets to the presets to warm it or cool it a bit. I'm referring to the presets, not the A & B memories.

Flaca Productions
07-26-2006, 01:42 PM
Yes, you can actually apply offsets to the presets to warm it or cool it a bit. I'm referring to the presets, not the A & B memories.

correct - just like my d50. i love it since it really gives you latitude when selecting filters, but i'll admit it took a bit of getting used to. its a real departure from the filter 1=3200 and 2,3,4=5600 automatically. the way we've thought for a long time.

i got a bit paranoid about forgetting to select 5600 or 3200 with that button so i put 3 little "56k?" stickers on the camera (made with a brother label-maker - in yellow) - one right in my line of sight on the back, left side of the mattebox, one back by the audio controls and one printed in mirror-image on the inside of the viewfinder so that, when it hits the mirror, i see it correctly. haven't had a problem since....and i love the capability to "dial-in" a preset white balance.

Canonman
07-26-2006, 01:46 PM
The camera is straight from Sony. I haven't changed any settings. I have the (crap!) stock 19x lens, and the 1/2 to 2/3 adapter that I use with my Fujinon 13x4.5.

No, the 19X Canon lens is stock only on the F330. The F350 comes as a body only kit. You would have to intentionally buy that 'crap' lens if you bought the F350. There are some really good 1/2 HD lenses hitting the market recently. I have the Fujinon 18X digital servo HD lens on my F350.

the camera gets really physically hot (much more than a Betacam) which is worrying but everything works fine.

Part of that heat generation comes from having the VDR in ready mode so the disc is always spinning and the laser ready for instant action. Advantage- instant recording..Disadvantage - more heat generated.

Placing the VDR in standby mode(the first toggle switch at front) will let the disk spin down between shots, saving battery and generating less heat. Disadvantage is that it will take a second or two between pressing record and getting the red light.

the 24P function is nice, and the ability to easily undercrank and overcrank is cool. I do US network news and magazine shows, so won't use this function often. but it is handy.

Put it in 24P and overcrank to 60fps and then see how dramatic those Hezbollah and Israeli explosions look during playback. Just don't forget to up the shutter speed to compensate.

the LCD is a bit cheap and shoddy. I certainly wouldn't use it for exposure or focusing.

Nor should you. It is intended for framing, status monitoring, and in camera editing. Notice if you turn on the action safe zone marker you will see it in the BW vf but it will be the exact same size on the LCD. IOW, the LCD is usable as a safe zone monitor without having it turned on in the bw vf. Pressing the display button on the LCD will toggle from image with overlay, no overlay, and status. The status display is quite nice.

Of course it's going to be a bit less sensitive in terms of exposure and lattitude than your SX because it's 1/2 sensors as opposed to 2/3.

cm

2000lux
07-26-2006, 01:54 PM
I went to the XD & FCP demo. The video they showed had been shot in Israel. I think they said they used the Cine 2 gama setting. I was very impressed by the contrast range. They showed some shots that could easily have been blown out on a lesser camera.

How's the depth of field? They showed some rack focus shots to say "Hey, it's got a tighter depth of field range than a small DV camera" (like that's hard) but the stuff in the background and foreground were pretty far appart. I'm sure it's still not as good as a 2/3" chip camera. Are you able to blur the background in a typical interview at all?

SimonW
07-26-2006, 02:15 PM
Cine gamma 2 is superb yes.

Blur the background in an interview? To be honest when I was using it in multiple interview style situations a few weeks ago I didn't really notice a huge difference. Okay, there was a difference. But I had no trouble throwing the background out.

If you use a 2/3" lens adaptor and 2/3" HD lens the DOF is the same as a 2/3" camera because of the increase in focal length that ocurs.

Yes, you can actually apply offsets to the presets to warm it or cool it a bit. I'm referring to the presets, not the A & B memories.

Ahh, but the the thing here is that I wasn't using the A and B memories. I used only the preset, yet the viewfinder still showed 6300k.

Ed_Scott
07-26-2006, 02:56 PM
Can someone tell me what the differences are between the 330 and the 350?

Thanks

Douglas
07-26-2006, 02:59 PM
- there is a silly W:P preset button between 3200 and 5600. It's a soft, easy to push button.

The button only has an effect when you are shooting in Preset. Don't use preset, and the problem is solved. I NEVER use Preset anyway.

My camera does get warm and the fan makes a little noise, but nothing I'd complain about.

I disagree about the menu system. It sucks.

Sony should have used the color LCD they use on the Z1. That would have been nice.

WB takes twice as long as other cameras I've used.

Doug

Flaca Productions
07-26-2006, 03:42 PM
The button only has an effect when you are shooting in Preset. Don't use preset, and the problem is solved. I NEVER use Preset anyway.


this then, would be different than the D50 where it works on the A, B, and PRESET settings.

SimonW
07-26-2006, 03:57 PM
Can someone tell me what the differences are between the 330 and the 350?

350 has variable framerate, HD-SDI out, genlock and timecode in/out, and XLR audio out.

dinosaur
07-26-2006, 04:14 PM
must-c,

I think the camera you are using is suffering from "Sony, Right Out of the Box" syndrome. Your camera is "flat" because its not set up right. Simon's hints for menu settings will probably help. Even the flare comps settings for that lens may be off the mark. See if someone you know in London or NY has a nice set up file for that camera that you can get sent to you on a Memory Stick or via e-mail and then transfer that file on to your memory stick for an upload to your camera.

When you get a chance ask for Jody Eldred's demo DVD from Sony. He shot it in the Negev Desert and around Jeruselem in a weather environment similar to what you are using yours in.

They showed his DVD at the HD XD/FCP seminar and I was really impressed with the color rendition and contrast range. Jody said it rivaled his F900. I test drove a F350 on a shoot last week, depth of field is not as hard to control as many have made it out to be. It does get hot and its really lens heavy. The 3.3 w/a is incredible.

Canonman
07-26-2006, 07:11 PM
Ahh, but the the thing here is that I wasn't using the A and B memories. I used only the preset, yet the viewfinder still showed 6300k.

Exactly what I was saying, Simon. You can dial in an offset to the 'Preset' WB setting in the menu system. So yes, someone had your 5600K preset tweaked to 6300K.

It is on page 5 of the Maintenance menu. You can also change the AWB speed on that page by turning Fixed Area to off, according to the manual's description. It is on by default.

cm

Canonman
07-26-2006, 07:14 PM
must-c-tv if you need a copy of the manual in PDF format, I can email it to you.

cm

SimonW
07-26-2006, 07:15 PM
Yeah, I know all that. Its the same on most Sony ENG cameras. But the odd thing was that I checked all that out and there wasn't anything to indicate any offset was there. Its been puzzling me for a while.

And yes I know I sound like I'm insane!

Canonman
07-26-2006, 07:24 PM
And yes I know I sound like I'm insane!

Join the club, I've been here for awhile. It's not too bad once you learn to filter out all the voices in your head. ;-)

cm

SimonW
07-26-2006, 07:42 PM
Speaking of XD HD.

http://www.handsonhd.com/

Might be a good DVD based on the reviews I've read on their other stuff. Just wish I'd thought of it two years ago!

<edit>And it turns out its by our very own Douglas! :)

ISDV
07-27-2006, 06:25 AM
Can someone tell me what the differences are between the 330 and the 350?

Thanks

The 350 also has a better viewfinder.

ISDV
07-27-2006, 06:35 AM
Speaking of XD HD.

http://www.handsonhd.com/

Might be a good DVD based on the reviews I've read on their other stuff. Just wish I'd thought of it two years ago!

<edit>And it turns out its by our very own Douglas! :)

Looks very good!
Is this an NTSC or PAL DVD? :confused:

SimonW
07-27-2006, 06:48 AM
Its NTSC, but most European DVD's and TV's can handle all formats, both 50hz and 60hz, so no problems there for us.

2000lux
07-27-2006, 06:40 PM
You can download the manuals for most broadcast equipment (including the 350) in PDF format at Talamas.com (http://www.talamas.com/manuals.html).

Canonman
07-28-2006, 01:43 AM
I've been through every menu on this camera(PDW-F350) and there is no 'J' mode or 'U' mode that I can find.

cm

SimonW
07-28-2006, 04:53 AM
The two modes are in the Operation menu, page 01 Format, then Country. Japanese NTSC and US NTSC.

Those are the only connections with a possible U and J mode I can think of.

Canonman
07-28-2006, 10:36 AM
The two modes are in the Operation menu, page 01 Format, then Country. Japanese NTSC and US NTSC.

Those are the only connections with a possible U and J mode I can think of.

Ahhhh...very clever, Simon. I think you nailed it. :)