Credit checks

[freedom]

Been getting a lot of out of towners calling lately.
I can ask that they pay up front. Some are fine with that. But some resist for logistical reasons.

So I've started doing credit checks. I ask for several names & numbers of freelance cameramen they have used recently. I call the shooters and introduce myself as a freelance shooter doing a credit check on client X. Seems to have worked so far. One thing I do is ask for shooters not in the clients home market. Some clients will treat a homey well but shaft out of state suppliers.

People seem to understand credit checks, everybody is faced with them. Holding a hard line can piss off a good client but extending credit is a feel good deal for them. Makes me look professional.
I don't want to do the credit card thing.

Just thought I'd share...

[allpro]

I like your angle of checking with other camreramen. I'm going to give that a try myself.

[tubecamera-or-bust]

It's not being unprofessional by taking care of business before you do a job.

I had a client from the UK recently who balked at using a credit card so I asked for a wire transfer to my bank account prior to the shoot or no deal. I got it and he got two good days of hard work on my part.

Getting paid is the mark of a good businessperson no matter what the business you're in.

[allpro]

tubecamera, well said!

In the beginning of my freelance career I was way too timid about pushing payment arrangements. Fortunately I never have had any major disasters in that department. But time has taught me that there is nothing uncool or inappropriate about firmly and securely locking down payment arrangements. In fact, I think some people respect you more when you are firm about payment. They know then that they're not just dealing with some kid or non-professional.

If you give a client reasonable payment terms that they're not willing to accept then it's a shoot you probably didn't want anyway.

[freedom]

Some of those clients are not worth having but many are.
There are good companies that don't have easy means of quick payment. If you want to turn them down, I'll take that business in a minute.
Thank you for making me look good.
Does your electric company demand payment up front? Your phone company? I know that each business is different and so it's not exactly apples to apples but good businesses extend credit all the time and most of them expect the same in return.

[Lensmith]

Some of those clients are not worth having but many are.
There are good companies that don't have easy means of quick payment. If you want to turn them down, I'll take that business in a minute.
Thank you for making me look good.
Does your electric company demand payment up front? Your phone company? I know that each business is different and so it's not exactly apples to apples but good businesses extend credit all the time and most of them expect the same in return.

The electric company expects me to pay my bill within thirty days or they shut off my power down here. So does the phone company. I'll be a good business person but I expect to be paid in a timely fashion. Anything I can do to speed up that process makes me a happier person and continue to stay in business.

In my part of the world I have to play a little "firmer" game than others. It's quite the norm here to ask for fifty percent up front before a single second of tape has rolled. The final fifty, no later than thirty days after the shoot. We don't do overtime here. We do make sure to get paid for our work. It's a trade off which I've been able to live with.

Sure there are some clients I send bills to and wait happily up to sixty days for payment. Others have to prove their worth to me...or they can find others. For me to work for less is just not worth it on so many levels.

Do to varied circumstances, I've structured deals differently but my biggest frustration involves first world clients who think I need to play by their rules. Sometimes that costs me business. Then in the long run when I see others, who laugh at me for being firm, complain of late payments for jobs they undercut me on in the first place, I know I'm on the right path.

I've been very lucky to be where I am today. But part of that "luck" is knowing when to stick to what I want and know I deserve.

It's an ability I developed as a staffer in the states at both union and non union shops. Be firm but not a total jerk. Let them know you have a line and what happens after that line is reached.

I don't have the luxury of checking with other shooters down here to compare prices. I can't play small claims court or pay for tons of international phone calls to chase down payments. Most of my competition is now out of work because they thought I was being too much of a stick in the mud about money. They said "thanks for the business Chele!" That was then. Now, in Nicaragua, it's pretty much just me and one other guy doing "real" news. Everyone else that might be considered "close" runs with an old Betacam or PD-170 (at best), a tripod and a hand mic. Lights? Yeah, there's one on top of the camera! That's it!

I have to admit to having one quiet smiling moment, just before Christmas last year, having a rather sure-of-themselves, US network person tell me how they "knew all about TV down here", how much everything cost, what was "the going rate", because they worked here during the war years in the 1980's. Yeah, almost thirty years ago! I pointed out expenses have gone up just a wee bit since then and all the people they knew, their "connections" were out of the business or dead.;)

I had a guy the other day wanting to spec prices for a job ask me "don't you like to work?". I told him "of course" but I also like to get paid afterwards. It's not one or the other!

Cash flow is a big part of any business. I've been freelance less time than others here at B-Roll, but I am confident in saying "no" to some who prefer dealing with cameramen who are desperate to survive. That kind of client always has trouble paying their bills and it's just not worth the headaches for me to be one of many on their long list of debts.

Get what you can and know when to say "no". It can scare the pants off you the first time you do it but you learn...you learn.

Probably more than anyone wanted to know or care about.

Just me sharing.:)

[tubecamera-or-bust]

Well said, John.

[freedom]

Lensmith posted:
In my part of the world I have to play a little "firmer" game than others. It's quite the norm here to ask for fifty percent up front before a single second of tape has rolled. The final fifty, no later than thirty days after the shoot. We don't do overtime here. We do make sure to get paid for our work.

John
So you get 50% up front, how do you know you will ever get the other 50%?

I do understand that you have a different set of circumstances based where you are. I would probably want 100% at the end of the day with people leaving the country immediately.

There is a large pool of freelancers around the US I can get credit checks with. This only applies to producers who are shooting regularly around the country with freelancers like me. I give them the option of giving me 2 solid credit references or pay 100% before getting tapes. On short notice, getting me a check is often difficult with a large company.

Would you require up front payment if CBS called? Well, maybe Lensmith would based where he is. But if you tried that here in the US, they'd call somebody else. So that means you are extending credit to them.

[Lensmith]

Just to be clear...I don't do the fifty percent up front every time or with every client. It's one of the options I have available to me if I'm not sure of a clients finances or...shall we say, their honesty. I make sure I get the second fifty when they want to have the tapes in their hands.

I do bill others. My bread and butter client is 80 percent of my work and we bill once a month. Regular clients giving us regular work. No problem offering them services because they pay within forty five days. Usually closer to thirty. That's for producing four to six, two-minute stories a month. They've earned their credit just like we've "earned" the regular work.

Desperate people will always offer credit no matter what. That's a formula for failure.

Credit is fine sometimes. Not every time.;)

[Birdy]

Though we've all been over this a thousand times before, this thread is always a good reminder. Just learned of a friend who was burned for several thousand dollars worth of work. No signed agreement. Live and learn.

[freedom]

"Desperate people will always offer credit no matter what. That's a formula for failure."

I hope you aren't infering that my methods are borne of desperation.

[Lensmith]

"Desperate people will always offer credit no matter what. That's a formula for failure."

I hope you aren't inferring that my methods are borne of desperation.

Absolutely not...and if you feel others would infer that from my words...I apologize.

I was trying to point out a trap many new freelancers fall into but never intended for that brush to be used to cover your situation or professional abilities.

We all make judgements about money and what works one place will not work others. But what I have seen both inside the United States as well as here are people who forget they are running a business that, at least in theory, is supposed to survive over the long term.

That's why I was writing about "the trap" of giving too much credit to those who do not deserve it, then having to suffer when a persons own good intentions cause them to suffer or fail.

I hope that makes sense!;)

[freedom]

John
I thought that would be the case but the tone of written words are sometimes difficult to interpret.

And I understand your point. I think I'm making the same point from the opposite side of the coin. I'm trying to be accomodating to clients without totally giving in to desperation. I've noted that I don't give credit freely. I run a credit check and if that won't work then it's cash up front. So far no objections. It will be interesting to hear explainations from the first client that doesn't want to do a credit check. One side effect is it will keep them talking. The more they talk, the more they will give away about themselves. The easier to smell a rat should one be lurking nearby.

[NEWS_HAWK]

I like many have been burned in the past and vowed not to let that happen again. I mainly stick with network clients, but recently I did a gig with a company that I never heard of and asked for payment each day of the gig. They were OK with that, in fact after day one they were such great folks I told him to pay me at the end of the shoot. Well let me tell you this! At the end of five days my faith was restored in humanity, I was given a check for my work Plus a bonus as it was Christmas. Not to mention a gift card from the Producers for $50.00.

All very unexpected.