Discovery Wings????? who and how???

[Everett McEwan]

I am a News Videographer/Editor in Denver Colorado and I am interested in producing programing for Discovery Wings and I am not sure how to go about getting into that. I have always had an interest in aviation and military
subjects, both in on my own and as a TV
photojournalist. I have an immense knowledge on the subject and a passion for producing award wining, high quality TV news, it would be a natural thing for me to combine my two passions and skills.
I have tried contacting Discovery Wings and I can't seem to find out who I should send a tape to and no one seems to know what production houses work with them. I am sure I would work with a production company and the
work would be of a freelance nature. Does anyone reading this work with them? Or know someone who does? Or who handles stuff for them? I want to get my foot in the door and any help or
advice anyone could offer would be very helpful, thank you, Everett McEwan.

e-mail
evnewsphoto@yahoo.com

[Sportsguy]

Have you tried watching the credits at the end of every show? I'm pretty sure any production info you'd need is contained therein. Any production company that does a show like that should have a website of some type.

I wouldn't bother contacting the cable station. They probably have no idea what's going on...

[Eric Lian]

Everett,

As I understand it, at this point, Wings is no longer accepting pitches or story ideas. They want to evaaluate finished 30 or 60 minute segments. Like building a house on spec. Not necessarily a bad thing if you're so inclined. Information is available on the Discovery site.

[Baltimore Shooter]

I would NEVER do anything on spec. Unless you have tons of money or a willing sponsor, how will you pay your crew, voiceover artists, soundpeople, editors, etc?

Producing a program on spec sets a dangerous precedent, kind of like content providers paying a network to air a program. I'm working on several ideas for documentaries, magazine shows, cooking shows and more. If they want me to produce a program on spec or pay them to air it, they can forget it. I've already registered the treatments w/ the Writer's Guild, so they'll collect dust and never get produced if they expect me to do that.

Try going to a car dealership and demanding that they pay you to take thier car or go to a real estate agent and demand they pay you to take that house you like. Producing a program on spec is a BAD IDEA.

I don't know what Discovery is doing as far as Wings goes, but you can send your program ideas to them and see what they want from you at www.producers.discovery.com (http://www.producers.discovery.com)
Hope that helps.
warren

[Baltimore Shooter]

Damn, don't know why that link didn't work, shoulda checked it before I sent the message. You can cal them to find the site at
240-662-0000. Sorry about that.
Warren

[Baltimore Shooter]

Okay,
found out what went went wrong, here's the link http://producers.discovery.com/

[tdelarm]

I would use extreme caution when pitching a paper treatment or presenting a video treatment to Discovery or for that matter any airing venue regarding your original programming ideas or projects without legal representation of some type in person or otherwise.

Regarding Discovery, I personally would use an agent or entertainment lawyer when pitching show ideas as its too risky with Discovery of losing your idea to their in house production or they taking the idea and turning it over to one of their established producing entities.

I’ve had a few lengthy discussions with one of their in-house producers years ago who warned me of this practice of them saying “that’s a great idea but we already have something close to that sitting on our desk”. Independent producers who have produced product for them have also advised me of this.

Established producing companies that have reputations with the cable companies still submit treatments through legal consul to the best of my knowledge.

Someone who has no track record of producing long format will have an uphill battle selling his or her treatment. I’m not saying it can’t be done but its tough and very risky and you need to proceed with caution.

It’s hard enough to copyright and/or protect an idea with representation more-less an unknown going it alone. Registering with WGA isn’t enough in this day and age.

There are several publications that are available on this topic of selling your ideas. Samuel French Bookstore in Los Angeles has a ton of them. I’d do some quick studying before setting up pitch meetings.

Samuel French Book Store (http://www.samuelfrench.com/)

Have fun but go in with both eyes open.

[Eric Lian]

Spec work is not for anyone but hungry risk-takers. I think it's great that some people have enough work coming in that they don't have to do spec work. Guess which category I fall into?

I've done spec work and have sold spec work. Short stuff that didn't require much of a crew at all. Sometimes it goes a long way to show the client exactly what you have developed for them and say "here it is and this is how much". It convinces some clients who were riding the fence to hop over on your side. Not only do they have instant product, but they don't have to worry about the process and whether their money was well spent.

The stuff I don't sell becomes a part of my permanant archive and I've probably learned a new technique or two in the process.

Some customers will always try to drive you on price, and you have a choice to play or not.

As far as crew is concerned, I can post a free add in any number of local internet sites, and in the period of 8 hours get 200 up-and-comers banging down my door who will take a copy of the reel in lieu of pay. They're hungry risk-takers too. Who else will give them a shot without experience? Yeah, sifting through the lot is a chore, but the gravel always has a few gems.

If I have a choice to sit on my butt or develop a project for a the client that didn't even realize they needed what I was selling, I'm doing spec.

Steve Wozniack and Steve Jobs would never have started Apple Computer if they had waited for someone to pay them before they started soldering in their garage... You do what you have to do, and if you can do it in your spare time because you love to do it and "might" make a buck here and there, all the better.

[Austin Reeves]

Originally posted by Eric Lian:
As far as crew is concerned, I can post a free add in any number of local internet sites, and in the period of 8 hours get 200 up-and-comers banging down my door who will take a copy of the reel in lieu of pay. Someone respond to this. If no one does, I will... and I'm afraid of what I might say....

Austin

[tdelarm]

This taken directly from the Discovery site…

Wings Discovery (http://wings.discovery.com/utilities/about/tvfaq.html)

What is Discovery Communications policy on the submission of program ideas?
We are only able to accept proposals from established production companies. If you are an individual with a program idea or are interested in being talent on a program, you should do your own research on production companies and contact them. There is further information about Discovery's policies on our producer's web site: http://producers.discovery.com

IF you were real serious about getting your projects produced and on the air my thoughts would be…

Produce it as a documentary and show/shop it accordingly. Enter the project into film festivals.

Get your product aired through your local PBS giving it credibility.

Partner up with an established production company and produce it together as partners.

Give the project to a production company and sign on as a producer getting producer credit.

Whatever method you choose. Until you are an established producer, cable companies or otherwise will not look at you seriously as a person they trust with a $300K+ budget to produce 13 ½ hr shows for them. What guarantee do they have you won’t screw it up and not make deadline as an unknown producer.

I’m sure there are other credible producers here that can add to this advice on how you actually go about getting product on the air. Not those trying but who actually have gotten produced and aired on national cable.

No slam on anyone but I simply will not use inexperienced people in main stream positions on my projects. I neither the time nor extra money to spend to correct mistakes.

Don’t let any of this information stop you from following your dream. Again, just go in with both eyes open.

Once you get your first project on the air the others will follow much easier.

[Lensmith]

Originally posted by Austin Reeves:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eric Lian:
[qb] As far as crew is concerned, I can post a free add in any number of local internet sites, and in the period of 8 hours get 200 up-and-comers banging down my door who will take a copy of the reel in lieu of pay. You get what you pay for ;o)

[Eric Lian]

Austin,

Don't be shy. Unless I'm reading it wrong, your post is designed to incite something other than an exchange of ideas, which in my opinion, isn't constructive or helpful at all.

I would also address that presenting a single paragraph out of context with the spirit of my total post is in poor taste.

BTW. Nice web site. It looks like you actually have the means and funds to employ a seasoned crew.

The rest of us (who are not currently as fortunate as the established) will continue to do what is necessary with those who are willing.

[Eric Lian]

Lensmith,

I have always respected your insight and have learned a great deal from your posts. I take your brief comment in the spirit it was given.

At the same time I can't really believe you feel that way. It implies that talent and competence can only be found within the structure of established production houses and seasoned field crews.

I've read the stories you generously share. I specifically seek out your posts; but tell me the story of the first time you picked up a camera for a client, or sold stock to a client you didn't previously target as a client.

Or maybe the first time you had to assemble a crew. Even if it was only a crew of one other than yourself.

[Lensmith]

Originally posted by Eric Lian:
Lensmith,

I have always respected your insight and have learned a great deal from your posts. I take your brief comment in the spirit it was given.

At the same time I can't really believe you feel that way. It implies that talent and competence can only be found within the structure of established production houses and seasoned field crews.

I've read the stories you generously share. I specifically seek out your posts; but tell me the story of the first time you picked up a camera for a client, or sold stock to a client you didn't previously target as a client.

Or maybe the first time you had to assemble a crew. Even if it was only a crew of one other than yourself. My comment was not meant as a personal slam against you.

It was meant as a voice of experience. What kind of people are you going to get who work for free? They sure won't be experienced professionals.

Every job I've ever done involved paying people for their work. That was from day one in my career as a freelancer.

No one with any real ability works for free. If they do...they do it once. Your post about the free ad and hundreds of responses from people working for free led me to believe you thought you could produce material day after day with all free crews.

The idea behind any production is to generate future work. Work which puts money in your pocket. Produce a less than professional product and you are not going to get future work...let alone pay your light bill or put food on the table.

I don't do spec work. It's not worth the hassle...or the financial drain with no return. Sure, work for a lower rate if it's something you care about but never for free. Everyone has basic expenses. Anyone expecting free employees is not serious about producing a professional looking final product.

As a freelancer you are either running a business or you are enjoying a hobby with no expectation of a paycheck. I could never do that.

From my limited experience, I don't know anyone who can claim to be making a living without following basic business rules.

Rule number one. Get paid for your work.

I'll repeat this so you won't be upset. My thoughts are not meant to hurt your feelings or insult you. They are only my perspective on maintaining a real career which I plan to enjoy for years to come.

It's not a hobby. It's a job ;o)

[Hiding Under Here]

I don't agree with "rule number one" -- get paid for your work -- in every instance. I think there are obvious reasons to do spec work. Furthermore, I believe the idea that spec work is bad is a mindset that will hamper freelance television photographers, such as ourselves, as we move into the future.

When things are slow for me I notice more acutely how infrequent the phone rings and how much of my self-worth and self-esteem I place in the hands of others. If you have a family and financial responsibilities, you depend on working to maintain those important parts of your life. Sometimes, all the marketing in the world won't make the phone ring and you go to bed at night wondering if the volume of work will ever return to a level that makes you comfortable again.

As you get older, it becomes more difficult to retrace your footsteps and alter the direction of your career. Being a lawyer is out. Becoming a doctor isn't plausible. Getting an MBA becomes vastly more difficult with kids and a house. Starting a business is also hard to do.

All your skills and experience, your expertise, who you are, is tied up in this funky line of work that you discovered because you loved something enough to persue it vigorously.

If all we do is wait for the phone to ring, fine. But if the phone stops ringing, what are the alternatives? Well, one of your biggest strenghts is playing the deck you hold already in your hands -- you're have a relatively unusual skill and knowledge-base. What's so wrong with making something that expresses what you are capable of to develop your client base? Plenty of professionals do work on spec. Why can't we?

The answer is because we worry that doing something on spec equates to doing it for free. And that simply doesn't have to be the case. Making something on spec is, as Eric points out, simply another way of operating in this business. If it leads to a more stable way of living and working, who is to say that rule number one is efficacious for everyone?

Personally, I respect entrepreneurialism a great deal. And, I don't assume Lensmith doesn't. In fact, I'm sure he does. I just think we have worked for so long under this system that it is difficult for us to consider alternatives. I believe that stubborn short-sightedness, in the long run, may be a mistake. Knowing that we have something more valuable than our equipment and our time is important. Applying that self-worth, whether it involves spec work or not, will, I believe, help us navigate through the uncertain business climate ahead.

When the phone won't ring, it would be nice to be able to ply your trade in a way that helps bolster your income. If spec work aids in doing that, I wouldn't discard it out-of-hand.

[Baltimore Shooter]

Originally posted by tdelarm:
Get your product aired through your local PBS giving it credibility...

Whatever method you choose. Until you are an established producer, cable companies or otherwise will not look at you seriously as a person they trust with a $300K+ budget to produce 13 ½ hr shows for them. What guarantee do they have you won’t screw it up and not make deadline as an unknown producer.Unfortunately if you put it on PBS, Discovery most likely won't touch it because the license agreement was w/ PBS and not Discovery. In the guidelines from ITVS about getting your program on PBS they state that it's very difficult because there are regular shows like Nova, Motorweek, Wall Street Week, etc that MUST run every week at a certain time, plus you have each PBS station that has it's own agenda and your's may not fit with that they're looking for, etc. They say that's there is very little room for programming on PBS. If I remember right, they said there maybe some way to air the program during their pledge drives and offer copies of the program with a cetrtain pledge amount.

Have you seen some of the programs on Discovery or some of their networks lately? In the last few years, Discovery, TLC, Disc. Health, Wings, Times, etc have begun to look like some cable access channel. Bad looking video, shakey, ugly stuff, poor editing, etc. Don't get me wrong, there are some real gems in there, but I see more and more stuff that looks like some kid right out of school produced a program. Maybe I'm seeing a bunch of productions done on spec lately.

Eric, please don't take this the wrong way, but I have the feeling that you haven't been in this business for very long if you think doing something on spec is okay.

My advice would be to hook up with a production comapany who has done a lot of work for Discovery, PBS, History Ch, etc. By being a PA or a Grip and obversing everything, you can learn so much. Good luck.
Warren

[Lensmith]

Just a question T-2

Can you give me an example of spec work worth your while?

I have to admit I've been in discussions with several people here about producing a local news magazine show.

The money isn't there to produce it and get paid. Actually they are wanting to produce something to show to potential advertizers who would then foot the bill to get the show on the air...and ultimately put money in my pocket ;o)

I'll admit I've been on the edge about putting out all the effort to shoot and edit something without a dollar figure attached for several reasons I won't go into here.

Am I correct in thinking you would advise me to give it a closer look before shutting the door on a potential future opportunity which might have a chance to generate revenue for me?

My experience seeing crews work for free is they are then always expected to work for free in the future...or for much less than they deserve.

I'll allow there is always a chance spec work could turn into something great. Personally I think those odds are tilted highly in favor of those who don't have to buy and maintain equipment...or families ;o)

I don't mind gambling as long as I think there's a reasonable chance I can win. If not, I prefer to walk away and deal with clients willing to pay for my abilities.

[Eric Lian]

Lensmith,

Text messages and email are a funny thing. One can never be sure as to the tone the author intended, but trouble always comes when that tone is misinterpreted. Especially on this board.

I didn't read your original comment as offensive or as a personal slam in the least. Perhaps I should have added a smiley face of some sort to interject the necessary tone.

I appreciate the professionalism you bring to this board and I apply the proper tone in my brain when I read your posts.

I hope that as you become familiar with my posts, you will see that my tone is similar. I'm not here to rant and rave or be sarcastic to cover a passive-aggresive nature. When I ask a question, you can be sure that it is a real question, not a rhetorical posted in sarcasm.

The questions I posted to you were real questions. I'm sure everyone has a story about what they did to get their first job and the equipment they used. I dare say it wasn't pro market rate and beta cam.

I guess this is where I would insert the aforementioned tone setter. :)

[Hiding Under Here]

Lensmith:

Here's an example -- let's say you live in a summer resort area that people love. There are magazines about that resort area. You believe if you make a program of beautiful exteriors of this area and put it to music, you might be able to sell it using the magazines as your marketing tool; people who love the area might buy a program that makes them feel as though they are in touch with it. All you have invested is your time and some tape stock. Then you pay for the advertising. If you get no orders you are out a few hundred bucks. My guess is that you'd sell more than you'd think, particularly at Christmas.

Trust me when I say that I am the first person who wants to get paid for what he does. Before I concentrated on shooting I also worked as a writer. One project I did was supposed to be about 30 pages long. When it was done I had written one hundred and fifty for the same money. It was then that I began to focus on shooting because I got paid for every hour I worked.

I am skeptical of projects that require me to work for free. However, I wouldn't dismiss them without looking at them closer. When I think of spec work, I think more in the realm of what you can do with your skills and knowledge to create alternative business opportunities.

Eric, I read your posts carefully. I agree your quote was taken out of context and it magnified something that really wasn't consistent with your contributions.

[Eric Lian]

Baltimore Shooter.

I haven't been in this business for very long, but that doesn't mean I don't understand business. And don't worry about me taking things the wrong way. I appreciate an intelligent exchange of "real" ideas.

Photography has been a serious hobby of mine for the past 30 years. Yep, I started young. In the sixth grade I was rolling my own film, shooting, developing, and printing in the family darkroom. This year, I decided to make a go of it because I got tired of my well paid corporate job. I'm gambling peace of mind over a steady paycheck. My base skills are very good if I don't say so myself.

I am in the position where I have to sell myself, cold call, talk to people about what I do, show people what I do. I am constantly targeting specific companies with shorts they never asked for. I get the practice, and I even sell a few. That affords me the luxury of buying more equipment or getting my current equipment serviced at the factory.

What I can't quite figure out is why the so-called experts in this particular board look down on spec work? It's almost an "I'd rather lie in the gutter penniless" attitude than ever consider spec as a way to generate income. What else are you doing? I can understand if you've been at your cameraman job all day long and don't have the time, inclination, or NEED to do spec work. That's GREAT, but that's different. I don't have a job doing what I love to do like you do, but I'm working at it.

Spec work is an established and accepted practice in every other industry I have ever worked in. It's the basis for much of the R&D performed by major corporations and small time inventors. It's the basis of any grass-roots initiative.

If I had to wait for someone to give me a green-light to run with one of my ideas, I'm afraid I'd be waiting for an awfully long time.

You'll see that a lot of my posts have been recorded at 3-4am. I'm awake and I'm editing, and trying to learn, as well as add value to this board.

[Lensmith]

Originally posted by Eric Lian:
The questions I posted to you were real questions. I'm sure everyone has a story about what they did to get their first job and the equipment they used. I dare say it wasn't pro market rate and beta cam.

I guess this is where I would insert the aforementioned tone setter. :) Cool. ;o) That's why I use this silly smiley face of my own to help people understand the tone of my posts as well.

It's hard for me to talk specific numbers about rates since my geographic area of work is well outside of the US and "pro" rates are lower than what most on B-Roll would expect. I do get a US network photog rate for a good chunk of my jobs...but not all. My sound tech never does...but he's paid a top "local" rate which keeps him at my side no matter what. So distilling all the numbers down my "crew" day rate is lower but my personal "cameraman/labor" rate is never less than US$350 a day.

Compared to an average US$1.300 a day rate for a two man crew in the states...I have some room to play with the final numbers since my other costs can easily be less than a grand a day.

My overhead is much lower than our peers in the states. That affects day rates. Not to mention the ever present, under cutting yahoos, with little or no long term business sense and less than basic broadcast equipment ;o)

I guess we should stick to the topic of spec jobs.

After some thought...I did think of one time early in my freelance career down here where I did spec work. This country gets a ton of visiting groups of doctors doing all kinds of surgery to help the poor. It's pretty easy to figure out where the American docs are. Even easier to get into the hospital and do interviews and b-roll with them. I shot some tape of two different groups of doctors without a client asking me to. One day of work. Four tapes of vid and interviews, then I make expensive international phone calls, cold, to the small tv markets where these doctors come from. Using the internet it was easy enough to get newsroom numbers. All of these groups are from big college, well known, hospitals but big colleges are usually in smaller tv markets. Think Duke University or University of Tennessee.

Calling the tv stations cold was what I expected it to be like. The newsroom phone is answered by an intern or secretary. I'm put on hold for ten or fifteen minutes while they find a news director or EP. Give that person an idea of the story. The quality of my work and gear. Then it's time to talk price. Again we're dealing with small markets. Several wanted to pay a stringer rate equal to shooting a local traffic accident. Others needed to "think about it" and get back to me...which meant more phone calls on my part...and more money out of my pocket...only to be told "no thanks".

In the end I had only one shoot which I considered a success story at the time. A station wanting the tape on an exclusive basis and willing to pay a whole US$300 for it. Of course no money would come my way until they saw the tape. Then cut the check, mail it to me here in Nicaragua, where I would deposit it and wait four weeks for it to be cleared by the bank. I'm talking three months between rolling tape and getting dollars in my pocket. All for US$300!

In the end I barely broke even. Between the phone calls, cost of tape and mailing, and lost time focusing on a lesser paying job instead of the better paying news coverage for Spanish language news networks, I learned something.

The people I sold the tape to were never going to call again with more work. They'd done the story with my vid once. They weren't going to do it again no matter how many times their docs came to do good things for the poor.

Secondly, the one group I had considered a "success" did call back, but expected me to work for free and gave me a hard time about "how dare I expect to make any money shooting and selling video of their good work"...even though they were still making their own salaries on a paid vacation and getting all their expenses covered. They didn't even want to pay for the cost to ship the tapes to them!

It left a bad taste in my mouth as well as giving me a quick business lesson in what is and isn't smart to do when you try and run a real business.

A real business works to sell their product, not give it away. And most importantly, the idea is to generate future return business from the client.

You can't ignore your basic costs and investments for short term connections which don't pay off. The key word being "pay".

I'm all for being a nice guy and doing good things. That's why there are certain situations I'll offer a lower day rate, but no business can afford to do things for free or below cost and expect to survive.

I run a business. Not a social club or charity ward.

That's how I have to judge clients when running my business. Will they generate future work? Will I at least cover basic costs and still eat? Will they pay in dollars or some other foreign currency? Will they pay in a timely manner? Will the client even pay at all?

Silly, simple questions which many ignore when they first start freelancing. They think a sample reel from a free job will get them work with other clients. My experience is all that does is teach people there are a few out there willing to work for free and encourage them to insist on more free work.

That is part of the reason I made my "you get what you pay for" comment concerning your internet ad getting hundreds of responses.

Just because you can get someone to work for free doesn't mean you have a successful business formula. Let alone a professional quality product. No one can buy and maintain professional equipment for free.

There are always going to be...pardon the word...fools, who will work for free. They don't survive. There will always be others to take their place. That doesnt' mean I have to follow in their footsteps down the road to failure.

Whether you're a freelancer in the states or somewhere else in the world you learn very fast to set your rates and stick to them. Of course ou adjust them a bit to allow for market fluctuations and/or client needs but never, never, never work for free.

Working for free leads to failure. Working for less than covers your costs leads to failure. I learned the hard way. I'm hoping my experience passed along here will give others insight and guidance to others about how to run their own freelance business...and still be in business five, ten, or twenty years down the road ;o)

[Tippster]

Hey, if I had nothing better to do (like work for a paying client) and the money to finance the spec work, plus a reasonable chance to at least break even, why not? I've heard of many DP's and directors in H-Wood that got started the same way. McD or whatever his name is (the guy who directed the Charlies Angels movies) is one of them. Grab the ring, if you can. I'm too big a chicken with my mortgage and mouths to feed, so I'll stay staff for a while...

[Lensmith]

Originally posted by thomas, too:
I am skeptical of projects that require me to work for free. However, I wouldn't dismiss them without looking at them closer. When I think of spec work, I think more in the realm of what you can do with your skills and knowledge to create alternative business opportunities. Thanks for your insights Thomas. Your thoughts reflect my own concerning the local news magazine show opportunity here. Not to mention expand my client base.

You are right. I should not automatically shut the door to possible opportunities which might require an initial investment on my part.

I appreciate the tone of this thread. It's on the edge without people getting pissy. It's a hard subject to discuss but a new area we've never really touched on here.

Yet another reason I'm such a big fan of this web site ;o)

thanks to all!

[Ken]

Spec work is definately a gamble. I have won and lost doing it but I don't outright shut the door on it without giving it a good look. There are of course many plusses and minuses. I did a lot of work for a professional "friend", someone who was a producer at the networks who I knew from when she started in the biz and was now producing a documentary on her own. I liked the subject and agreed to participate as long as expenses were covered...and if it made money I would expect some money from it. The project is finished and is playing in festivals around the country. I know she has had investments from people who were interested in seeing the doc made. She did cover all my expenses, travel, food, etc. but I have never seen any money from the project go into my pocket...nor did I like how it came out! So I feel good that I helped her out and she got to make her movie. I feel bad that she didn't pay me anything. That is the nature of spec.
On the other hand I did a spec project for another associate that I do a lot of payed work with. The project was for a series he was pitching. Through that spec project, a major network has picked up the project for at least for a payed demo of the idea...which could lead to 13 episodes which could lead to a lot of work for me. So I feel that doing that spec job will pay off in the end. You have to look at the opportunities each individual situation can create.

[Hiding Under Here]

And, ah Ken, you did spend time in prison did you not?

[Ken]

I'm still hoping that my prison time will be time well spent...yes, I went to prison on spec...and no, I didn't bend over to pick up the soap.

[Douglas]

There's nothing wrong with spec work, I've made a lot of money off of spec work. They key is to be in the driver's seat. It must be YOUR project and not someone else's.

When I owned a fairly large production company in another state (it's sitll going strong) we'd get people calling us up all the time with speculative ideas they wanted us to work on. My stock reply was "Hey, if it's such a great idea, then you'd be better off getting a loan somewhere and paying us upfront and keeping the millions of dollars you'd have to pay us later all for yourself. It's a good investment for YOU." 99.9% of them went away.

The speculative projects I've done were my own ideas and I was in complete control. The first one 12 years ago was a specialized video for a very narrow market and I only put about $7000 into it ($2500 out of pocket and the rest was for my time/equipment billed at full rates) and I ended up selling over 20,000 copies at $20.00 - $7.50 each depending on how/where it was sold.

If I waited for someone to approach me to do the project it never would have gotten done -- and that's just the first example out of a couple dozen.

I've got a very good idea for TV series that would be a perfect fit for HGTV/TLC/Discovery or any of those channels. There's nothing like it out there yet, but would sell. Will I pitch the idea by submiiting paperwork? No. Am I going to look for investors? No. I'm going to pony up the $15,000-$20,000 it will cost out of pocket (plus my time & gear) to product a complete pilot episode so I'm in control. Will it fly? Who knows, but experience tells me that it has a very good chance.

Or, if I lived in Baltimore, I guess I could sit at home and watch TV on my days off because there's no sense in picking up the camera if someone isn't going to put a treat in your mouth after you perform for them.

[cameragod]

I worked it out and to my surprise last financial year I did about $30 thousand in unpaid work. That included DOP on two digital feature films. Four short films and six PS commercials. I do work for money as well thanks but for some reason I can’t seem to say no when the phone rings. Part of it is being involved in a worthy project, part getting to work on something challenging or way outside the day to day. Learning or using skills that take your craft one step further and importantly making contacts in different circles that often lead to paid work latter from totally new clients.
This year I intend to concentrate on the paid work, see how the features do and build on whatever hype they generate. To me they are an investment as a form of marketing, the commercials did wonders for my profile locally, they got me recognition from some who thought I was just a news hack so I hope the features will boost my image nation wide.
My time is valuable but I am always open to a good script if there is something in it for me, not necessarily money but something.

[Eric Lian]

cameragod,

That's my point put into practice. A creative or positive way for anyone to view or categorize their $30,000 of unpaid (free/spec) work is as $30,000 of marketing.

[I wonder if that can be claimed on U.S. tax returns?]

Anytime we step outside with our cameras, video or still, we are selling and marketing ourselves whether we intend to or not. A big camera or a long lens, like a puppy, is a real ice breaker and people continually approach me with comments, questions, or just to have a conversation about the hobby or work in general. Some of those seemingly innocent conversations have led to jobs for me, and I always recognize those conversations as an opportunity to sell myself and my service in a VERY subtle way.

The fact that you take on the "freebies" is a testament to your love of the craft, recognizing that you stand to learn something new, and maybe create a few paying future contacts in the process.

I spent two hours outside the fence of an airport yesterday taking photos of a Coast Guard helicopter practicing approaches. In that time I had conversions with at least ten other people, who like me, just happened by. When the crew landed for fuel and saw me standing on the picnic table to shoot over the fence, they opened a gate and invited me for a closer look at the helicopter and to position me on the taxi-way to get photos of their take-off.

I may never sell any of those photos, but there are ten people and four crew members who have my business card and a link to my website where they can view the photos I took that day - along with the other photos and clips I have posted as well.

I CAN'T NOT take a picture or roll tape when there is something that interest me. It's in my blood. [bad grammar used for effect]

If someone believes in a cause, it's worthy of whatever time and talent they can afford to spend.

[Baltimore Shooter]

Well Douglas, if I had $15,000-$20,000 of my own money to do somethign like that instead of bootstrapping it back into my business, I'd be a lot better off buying a race car and go SCCA road racing every weekend. I can get a race car for about $10,000 and I'd be a lot happier.

But I guess you have employees that work for you full time. They geta paycheck every 2 weeks so they work when they're told. I, on the otherhand, don't have employees and I sure as hell won't ask ANYONE to work for free because the value of a professional is...priceless.

Guess I'll just have to do SCCA Solo 2 until then.
Warren

[Douglas]

Did I miss something? What the hell are you talking about?

[Tv Shooter]

Hey Warren,
I understand,except insert "stock car" for "SCCA"...lol.Expensive hobbys take a backseat to business now. :(

Richard