Compton Shoot Out

[jajack71]

After watching and editing the vo for this street mascre I was wondering what is everyones response to this story. I saw a clip where the cops were yelling at the photog to get out of the way because of the gun shots. I guess I can establish that the photog was taking a big risk with shooting such footage but, I must commend him on his bravery. The photog was very stern about getting the shots needed for the story. How far can photog's go when it comes to this kind of inicident without pissing off the boys's and girl's in blue? What are the legal rights for this kind of event? If the police give you a hard time getting your shot what is our recourse?

[MisterNiceGuy]

When was this shootout? Is there a link on the article, or video stream?

[ewink]

It's The First Story (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/17/national/main563855.shtml)

As for legalities, this is California. You can ask Terry for the specifics, but as long as he is not crossing crime scene tape (I think that's correct) he can go where he wants.

I would also like to commend this photog. Old boy has the gonads the size of bowling balls. I think as soon as the shots rang out, I would have been on the ground making sounds that resembled a 4 year old girl who caught her lip in a mouse trap!

I saw him on CBS News overnight, but the voolume was down. If he is on this board, we'd love to know what you were thinking when this went down! Especially since the cops ended up shooting each other too since they apparently don't teach "STAY OUT OF THE LINE OF FIRE" in the LASD Police Academy.

[ May 10, 2005, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: ewink ]

[C St. SW]

Since no one died, calling this a massacre sounds like a producer talking. I'm sure it happened so fast the photog didn't have time to react other than to keep rolling. It seems that the cops were far more interested in firing into the vehicle, so it looks (albeit possibly deceiving) that the photog was out of the line of fire.

As far as pissing the cops off....you can be assured, you will and it's unavoidable. Once the bullets stopped, once they realized a camera recorded it, the photog would likely be their next target. In this case a photog should expect to get rousted out of the area fast. Doesn't make it right, and you may have to put up a bit of a fight, but expect to lose. You already have the hot video...it's time now to retreat (within reason of course) to an area where you can still see, but give them the "space" they are going to demand.

As far as "rights" are concerned, after a shooting like this, the cops are going to care less about what you think your rights are. They are operating on pure emotion and adreneline. Just be mindful if you push it too far, no one will see that great video when they take you and your camera into custody! Just play it smart!

[Anton Saur]

Suspect had only four shots of the 100+ hit him. I was suprised at the amount of crossfire going on. I hope I'm never around when those dudes open fire! During the last part of the tape, you see the truck rolling IN BETWEEN the officers, and they keep shooting! One officer was apparantly hit in the crossfire. Suspect was unarmed...

[BluesDaddy]

My reaction was that the cop saw a civilian (photog) in an area where shots were being fired and wanted him gone for everyone's safety. What's the big deal here? The photog got the kind of video that comes along very rarely, and was able to hang out behind a car and continue to shoot. Everybody wins.

[RichVid]

I don't think the cops gave the photog a hard time at all, at least not until later, when they got their wits about them and booted EVERYONE off the block...It wasn't like they railroaded the photog outta there as we've seen elsewhere...the guy gave him a couple of shouts and then went back to firing...err business that is...

This photog is more a production shooter based in the South Bay who dabbles on the side with the stringing aspect... I worked with him several times in the mid to late 90s ... He's definitely a great shooter who knows what to expect; there were at least 2 other photogs on that block who dropped when the bullets started flying as opposed to this guy who went TOWARDS the action...

[queen of blue]

I agree with BluesDaddy, I think it was a safety thing - not a "we don't want you to see this" thing.

I had a cop tell me once that if we were too close, even though they understood that we KNEW we were taking a risk and that they shouldn't be counted on to protect us - it was harder for them to concentrate because they were thinking about keeping us safe too. It kind of a human nature thing, I'd imagine.

[JacobA]

I saw video of bullet holes in houses on the street. What the heck happened to trigger all of the cops? The guy didn't have a weapon, granted, he probably made a stupid move that appeared like a threat to the cops, but why did they shoot him so many times? What about all of the neighbors - they had bullets shot into their windows!

[SoCalShooter]

10 deputies shot 120 rounds and hit the suspect 4 times, his injuries were not life threating. They also managed to shoot one of their own deputies in the crossfire, although he was not seriously injured thanks to his vest. Bullets smashed into several surrounding homes, luckily no civilians were injured. I think I am starting to buy into the argument that a bunch of cops in one place feed off each others energy and are more likely to shoot without thinking. The problem is that they are thinking like soldiers, not police. When I was in the Marines I was trained to kill my enemy with hesitation. Police work should be the opposite. Citizens are not the enemy and communities are not battlefields. Even the most dangerous neighborhoods are populated by mostly good law abiding citizens. And the police are charged to protect them even if that means putting their life in danger. That is their sworn duty. A cop firing his weapon should be the last possible resort because once the bullets start flying, he can't control where they go. So if that means having to dodge a car heading for him instead of shooting at it, then thats what he should do. Shooting at the car only means a stray bullet might kill some kid sleeping in her room across the street. Any good cop will tell you that you know you have served your community well if you have never fired your weapon in the line of duty. Police need to stop watching so much TV and start thinking like police again, not like soldiers.

[ May 10, 2005, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: SoCalShooter ]

[ewink]

Originally posted by SoCalShooter:
Police need to stop watching so much TV and start thinking like police again, not like soldiers. I would almost agree with that if Compton wasn't the home of 'Cop Killer' and people who consider killing a police officer a badge of honor.

This is a city where for the past 15 years it's been kill or be killed.

It is SO very easy to Monday morning QB these cops. Did they go a little overboard? Yeah. But let's wait till they complete the investigation before we label all these kids as over-zealous street soliders.

[El Guapo]

Originally posted by SoCalShooter:

Citizens are not the enemy and communities are not battlefields. Even the most dangerous neighborhoods are populated by mostly good law abiding citizens.
A cop firing his weapon should be the last possible resort because once the bullets start flying, he can't control where they go. So if that means having to dodge a car heading for him instead of shooting at it, then thats what he should do. Shooting at the car only means a stray bullet might kill some kid sleeping in her room across the street. If I knew you SoCal...I'd buy you a beer. Thanks for your post.
I really doubt those idiot cops were thinking about the neighborhood they were in when they fired of 100+ rounds. Just because it's Compton doesn't mean there aren't innocent civilians there. Personally, the video disgusted me. Kudos to the photog...he had steady aim under fire...unlike the Keystone Cops at the scene.

[El Guapo]

HEY EWINK:

Don't be so influenced by pop culture. Compton is just another low-rent neighborhood. It's reputation doesn't give the police any right to act more violently than if they were in the 'burbs.
Talking the way you do makes you sound like another ignorant white-boy from the midwest...obviously you don't have a clue.

[RichVid]

Talking the way you do makes you sound like another ignorant white-boy from the midwest...obviously you don't have a clue.
Oh boy...here we go again... :eek:

Put your helmets on...

[ewink]

Originally posted by Big Macro:
HEY EWINK:

Don't be so influenced by pop culture. Compton is just another low-rent neighborhood. It's reputation doesn't give the police any right to act more violently than if they were in the 'burbs.
Talking the way you do makes you sound like another ignorant white-boy from the midwest...obviously you don't have a clue. Sorry!!!!!!!!!!
You must be right. As I know nothing of the outside world except for what I hear on Dr. Dre CD's... Compton is the most highly requested area of LA and is requested by new recruits en masse. :rolleyes:

Thank you for also informing me that since I am white, and from the midwest, I don't know anything about 'street life'.

And I apoligize for giving the police the benifit of a doubt over them using deadly force. Considering how many people police DON'T kill per year, it seems to me that they use non lethal force when necessary, and lethal when necessary.

My bad.

Let me guess what you're going to say next.

If he was white the po-lice wouldn't have shot him! Who cares that he was driving through a roadblock and at the cops! Hell! Had he been white, they wouldn't have even tried to pull him over!!!Was I close?

[(Sin)ical]

The scariest footage I saw was the officer waving the camea person away from the scene with his gun in hand, and his trigger finger engaged. I must say it is great ground footage, I was ducking and trying to move out of the way.

[2000lux]

As I was watching that footage I noticed that all the cops were standing up shooting at shoulder level, and that the photog, even though he / she was trying to hide behind a pole or a tree, was also still standing up. My only though was DUCK!!!!. Going down on one knee or crouching might have been safer. I'm just glad that photog' wasn't hit in the crossfire!

[Terry E. Toller]

I'll bet it was more of a liability issue with the cops than that of the photog's safety... especially considering that there was NO firearm found in the 'suspect's" car... and one cop was hit in the vest with a bullet, hmmmm... Of course, without a firearm, the cops will probably charge the suspect with attempted murder of a police officer anyway.

As for the law, in a case like that, they can run you off if they want. Nothing protects us under such a situation. However, it could be a gray area under the law. 409.5 PC begins with "Whenever there is a threat to public health and safety..." it goes on to say that the media can have access.

So, if a photog was ordered out of the area for his own "safety", it could be argued that the cops had no authority to protect him. The supreme courts of all fifty states and the US have ruled that "the police have no duty to protect citizens".

As for 409.5, it does mention disaster, accident, flood, earthquake and the sort so a crime scene is not covered. It would take a tricky lawyer (or photog) to get past that part of the law...

Great job on covering the shootout!!!

[Deaf and Blind]

After seeing the footage I am amazed only one cop was wounded and the guy in the car was only hit four times. Fairly rough treatment for a suspected DUI.
Maybe those Glocks all need new barrels? (must be all worn out) or the cops need to go back to the range.
Crap shooting by the cops, great shooting by the cameraman, who must have balls bigger than his brain.
_________________________

On Next weeks show the LAPD use a rocket launcher on a speeding granny.

Bad boy what ya gunna dooooo, whatch ya gunna do when they come for you. Bad boy Bad boy...

[ewink]

Originally posted by Deaf and Blind:
After seeing the footage I am amazed only one cop was wounded and the guy in the car was only hit four times. Fairly rough treatment for a suspected DUI.He was a suspect in a SHOOTING, not a DUI.

[Air_7]

There is a shot in the video where one cop who has his gun pointed towards the suspect and then points it at the cameraman and motioning him to leave and move back "Yikes"....Thank God there was no friendly fire there....You think he would of keep his gun on the suspect and motioned him to move with his other hand as I seen in the past as they would never do this to one of there own or maybe they would as one cop was hit by friendly fire on this incident....

[Grip]

4 out of 120, nice

[Snacks]

Let's face it, the photog is pretty much an idiot. But the gamble paid off and he got great video. This is a basically a bottom line business and he got the goods.

[Anton Saur]

Originally posted by Terry E. Toller:
I'll bet it was more of a liability issue with the cops than that of the photog's safety... especially considering that there was NO firearm found in the 'suspect's" car... and one cop was hit in the vest with a bullet, hmmmm... Of course, without a firearm, the cops will probably charge the suspect with attempted murder of a police officer anyway.The suspect had used the vehicle to try to ram several officers (not in their cars). I believe that this allows deadly force. That many shots in a populated area though IS unexcusable.
The driver had been in the area cruising because he was trying to come down off the crack he smoked earlier. There was a shooting in the area, and several casings were found in an area people said they saw him driving. (all per NBC Today Show)

[Natural Born Stringer]

Originally posted by Anton Saur:
The suspect had used the vehicle to try to ram several officers (not in their cars). I believe that this allows deadly force. That many shots in a populated area though IS unexcusable.
The driver had been in the area cruising because he was trying to come down off the crack he smoked earlier. There was a shooting in the area, and several casings were found in an area people said they saw him driving. (all per NBC Today Show) OK, well yes I agree that was just a ridiculous amount of shots fired but the bottom line is this: If this crackhead freaking moron simply pulled over instead of driving like a jackass and trying to run the cops over, NONE of this would have happened. And yes, if you try to run over a cop with your car he or she can and will shoot at you. As for the actions of the photog, well.... That was some killer video, but I've got a wife and kids to consider, so I'd be backing way off instead of going in for the money shot. If I didn't, believe me, I'd hear about it from The Boss. :D

[RichVid]

That was some killer video, but I've got a wife and kids to consider, so I'd be backing way off instead of going in for the money shot. If I didn't, believe me, I'd hear about it from The Boss. Yeah right! I expected the same thing from "My Boss" until those checks started coming in! Now it's like:

"Make sure your invoices and ledger are up to date in case something happens to you...then I can still bill everything pending"...

Thanks Alot Boss!

[Terry E. Toller]

I think this incident speaks volumes about the training for LAPD. Nationally, cops miss their targets 80 per cent of the time. That's bad enough! 4 hits out of 120 shots fired comes out to 0.0333 per cent! There is no excuse for that !!!

[Grip]

There is no excuse for that yeah OK Terry, let's see, your beloved war has killed over 10,000 innocent people and Osama is still walking and plotting, there is no excuse for that.

Sorry to thread jump, but Terry has no ground to speak.

Back on topic, as I watched the video again, there were so many shots fired it is comical, and these are people that are "trained" with guns. :rolleyes:

[SoCalShooter]

Originally posted by Terry E. Toller:
I think this incident speaks volumes about the training for LAPD. Actually the agency involved in this shoot out was the L.A. County Sherriffs Dept. Not that LAPD wouldn't have done the same!

[JTFCM]

Pathetic. 120 shots and 4 hits, not including the officer that was hit. It's no wonder the cop that pointed the gun at the photog wanted him out of there. It was probably too embarassing. I'm usually pretty Pro-PD but that was just sad. Kudos to the shooter...I mean, the photog, awsome video dude.

[Terry E. Toller]

gee grip, you sure put me in my place... Thanks for the liberal point of view, I needed a good laugh... I mean, let's face it, if America would left your pal Sadam alone to keep murdering people by the thousands (at a time), that poor crack head wouldn't be laying in a hospital right now with four bullet wounds. Where did you get your 10,000 dead, your other friend jane fonda? Hmmm, interesting who the libs rely on for information. But that's why they are liberals. Like our best ever president said, "Liberals aren't stupid, it's just that what they know isn't true", Ronald Regan. He was half right, since liberals choose to believe and repeat the lies, they ARE stupid...

Trained? Most cops receive minimum training and never get much more over the years.

[geek]

the number of civilians killed in Iraq is unknown we don't count the collateral damage.

I think it's suicidal for cops to stand in the middle of the street thinking their gun is going to stop the car. even after all the shots the car was still moving.

COPS the TV show has done more damage than good in that the police have final say in what makes air time. we here in the states do have a real problem with macho law enforcement, the number of people who show up to to get a job for even a few positions tells me theres too many power trippers looking for the "respect that comes with the badge" Rather than the civics of peace keeping.

the cop pointing the gun at the photog was very sloppy it could be said "the officer imposed prior restraint while menacing with a deadly weapon"

[Tippster]

****ing up Threads = so HOT right now!

Hey, the NYPD didn't do any better a few years ago with that Haitian that they shot at over 80 times and hit less than 10 times... from POINT BLANK RANGE (less than 20ft.)

[Terry E. Toller]

geek, you hit the nail on the head!

I was working as a private investigator a couple of weeks ago. We were watching a guy who was suspect in ripping off an insurance company. Boring job but good money....

A man pulled up along side of me and asked to use my cell phone because he just saw a man smash a window and enter a nearby building. I responded to the building and took a man down who was exiting the building.

Long story short, I called the Rancho Cordova Police and two cars responded. They took the burg home and didn't even write a report on the window smash! The owner of the business can't file an insurance claim without a police report.

The next weekend another operative (my daughter) heard power tools being used at 3 AM in a nearby business. Called the same police department. Two cars pulled up, shined spotlights into the building and left. The next morning the business reported a 20 thousand dollar loss.

BUT, I'll bet these jerks would be quick on the draw if they wanted to hurt someone...

BTW, the business owner with the 700 dollar window smash, he was the campaign manager for the mayor and he lives next door to the chief of police. Can't wait to see how this plays out...

[Cameradude]

First of all, great job by the photographer. The usual reaction to gunfire is to duck and run leaving the viewer with a lot of dutch shots of the ground, the sidewalk, and the reporters feet!

Second, good job to the cops, that idiot deserved to die.

The cops were about as accurate as can be expected in such a situation. Adrenaline has a primal affect on the eyes causing a sort of tunnel vision where the focus is on the threat, thus making focus on gun sights virtually impossible. It is an age old reaction that allowed the "hunted" to direct all of its attention to the "hunter".

Judging from the number of shots and the crossfire that was created, it was less than "textbook". There were probably a lot of cops that just wanted to shoot because everyone else was; this is typical in police shootouts where more than one officer is involved and it is usually what leads to crossfire shootings of officers.

This "adrenaline effect" is a good way to cover some ground and get close to the action when you are a cameraman, because the cops really don't give a crap about hassling you until the shooting stops. The photographer here took advantage of that and played it to his best interest.

[RichVid]

As a P.S. to this thread, Long Beach PD blasted a bad guy yesterday afternoon live on 2 of the 3 network affiliate newscasts...This guy was BAD - crashed his car numerous times - into other cars and into guard rails - and kept it at over 100 MPH... Waved guns at CHP during a portion and the car he was driving was taken in a residential takeover robbery... When the car finally quit working back in Long Beach, the guy tried to make a run for it carrying a 9mm...they blasted him and down he went...believe it or not, the guy sat up for a second and was pulling out a SECOND gun when they finished him off with another 3 or 4 shots in the upper body...there's a link to it on Ogrish.com somewhere...

[El Guapo]

Originally posted by RichVid:
As a P.S. to this thread, Long Beach PD blasted a bad guy yesterday afternoon live on 2 of the 3 network affiliate newscasts...This guy was BAD - crashed his car numerous times - into other cars and into guard rails - and kept it at over 100 MPH... Waved guns at CHP during a portion and the car he was driving was taken in a residential takeover robbery... When the car finally quit working back in Long Beach, the guy tried to make a run for it carrying a 9mm...they blasted him and down he went...believe it or not, the guy sat up for a second and was pulling out a SECOND gun when they finished him off with another 3 or 4 shots in the upper body...there's a link to it on Ogrish.com somewhere... I only got one quick look at that video. Am I wrong or did the cops shoot him in the back?

[El Guapo]

nevermind...just watched it again. I'm thinking he wanted to die. What made him think he stood a chance in that shoot out?