Photographer gets a guarded welcome

[HamCam]

WTF... this article is a bit old but is this a common thing in the US??

Photographer gets a guarded welcome
03/01/2004

A couple of Hotel du Pont guards recently taught Canadian TV photographer Lucien Millette how seriously they take homeland security.

Millette was in town covering a Chancery Court hearing involving Conrad M. Black, a media baron involved in a legal battle about whether he can sell his controlling stake in Toronto-based Hollinger International.

Black was rumored to be staying at the Wilmington hotel. Millette - thinking he could get some footage of the hotel's facade to be used in a story about where Black was staying - parked his van across the street from the hotel, set up his tripod and camera, and began filming the building's 11th Street entrance.

As he videotaped, Millette was approached by a hotel security guard, who asked him what he was doing. Millette explained. But when the guard asked him for his credentials, Millette resisted, explaining he was in a public area and was free to photograph.

More guards then confronted Millette, some blocking his filming. They insisted he show his credentials so they could be sure he wasn't a terrorist, Millette said.

Hotel and DuPont Co. officials said they were within their rights to question Millette, citing homeland security as well as patron safety and privacy. "We sympathize with the gentleman if he felt harassed," said Carolyn Grubb, hotel spokeswoman. "[But] this is consistent with what we do."

Millette said he understands the importance of homeland security, but was appalled that people could be questioned for taking photographs in a public area. "I think it's just a misuse of power," he said.

Source: DelawareOnline.com (http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/business/2004/03/01coffeebreak.html)

:cool: :cool:

[Sportsguy]

Hmm. Hope he was rolling. I'd air the confrontation.

[Videodoc]

I wouldn't have a problem showing them my credentials. I wouldn't allow them to take any personal information down. They probably would just glance at it and go away. But I'd write a letter to the hotel officials asking them several things.
A) What legal standing do they think they have that gives them the right to ask for ID?
B) What gives them the right to do anything on the basis on "Homeland security". Does the Dept. of Homeland Security know this?
C) How were they going to determine if I was a terrorist?
D) Who wants to blow up a hotel in Wilmington? Seriously?
I'm sure there's others. They were probably just doing because their "guest" was mad and told them to do something about it. Tell them to be careful throwing the Homeland Security thing around.

[Terry E. Toller]

"homeland security' my ass! this is sort of like the so called, Patriot Act. They assume that citizens should give up personal rights for security. NO!

In public view, it's mine... I once had guns pointed at me by army guys while taking a photo inside an airport at Bombay India. I didn't know but they don't allow photos of airports for security reasons. But in India, they don't have the freedoms we "have"... But in the US, we still have a Bill of Rights... BTW, it's not a Republican or Democrat thing, they all want to take away rights...

[ May 05, 2005, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Terry E. Toller ]

[Shot A Load]

I hate rent-a-cops.

[5600K]

Hmmmm... maybe I should go and start shooting in front of this hotel, since it is just a 20 minute drive from here, and I am down in Delaware often. We'll see what happens when their security gets shown harrassing a LOCAL photographer.

[Man on the Street]

Originally posted by Terry E. Toller:
"homeland security' my ass! this is sort of like the so called, Patriot Act. They assume that citizens should give up personal rights for security. NO!

... BTW, it's not a Republican or Democrat thing, they all want to take away rights... Terry: I'm wondering who the first "They" is referring to. Those private security guards can ask you questions all day, just like you can take pictures all day. Anybody can do that. They aren't real police (probably wish they were) and can't arrest you and better not touch you. What I would do is suggest they call the police if they think I'm doing something wrong. Otherwise, get out of my face.

To the original question about is this common in the U.S.: Yes, in my experience it is. Are you telling me that when you show up unexpectedly in Canada to shoot a building or people you don't get questions about what you are doing? I'm not saying it doesn't get tedious, but you just deal with it. Sometimes I just ignore them, sometimes I explain my rights to them, but I always expect them.

[Terry E. Toller]

"they" means those who passed and support the patriot act.

Questions are OK. but the excuse of 'homeland security' is just a ploy to flex muscles that they don't have. I guess it makes them feel important in the fight against terrorism to violate the law...

[Frank McBride]

Originally posted by Sportsguy:
Hmm. Hope he was rolling. I'd air the confrontation. Why? How would it help tell your story?

FMc

[Photographer]

Why is it everything has to be made into some big thing. Show your credentials have some small talk and get on with it. I've had security come out from buildings I'm shooting many times asking who I am. I show them my credentials and they thank me and say they just wanted to know.

What is the big deal? People like this guy Lucien Millette give us a bad name.

They just want to know who we are. Who cares if they write our info down. We are not doing anything wrong. I find when I'm polite they are polite and go away faster.

Ever since 9/11 things are different. More questions are asked. People are more nervous about people standing around. We tend to stand around in one spot a lot. The fact is someone could pose as one of us and then trigger a bomb or pull a gun or anything. You realize they are probably not just wanting to check our credentials but also to see how we respond. Sorta like at the border when you cross back into the U.S.. They stop you and ask you where your from and ask for your passport. They read your reaction. Just as security might be doing when asking for our credentials.

I think it's funny when some of the posters here get really pumped up when someone posts a message about being questioned by security of some type. WHO CARES!!

[ewink]

We should care because it's the beginning of something that can be very bad.

When people start getting questioned about 'what they are doing' when on a public street then what's next?

I really am not a lunatic conspiracy theorist. But I refuse to give up my freedoms for security.

I prefer to have the thought that there is a possibility of a dirty bomb blowing up and killing me in the back of my head rather than have to show my ID at every check point. Rather than have to explain myself to every one with a tin badge and 40 hours of Homeland Security training.

Who cares? I do. And so should you. If you don't, move to Iraq. That should show you have well check points and people questioning what you are doing outside that building works...

And for the record, these people were trying to kill us before 9/11. Just so happens 19 of them were sucessful.

[HamCam]

Originally posted by Man on the Street:
Are you telling me that when you show up unexpectedly in Canada to shoot a building or people you don't get questions about what you are doing? I'm not saying it doesn't get tedious, but you just deal with it. Sometimes I just ignore them, sometimes I explain my rights to them, but I always expect them. For the most part yeah... I've been to many a prominant building... be it a public government building, or private/corporate office and had no problem shooting the exterior.

:cool: :cool:

[The Toplens]

Most people don't have a problem over here. You get the odd 'jobs-worth' who wants to know everything from your intentions to your inside leg measurement.
Our main response to "who says you can film here?" is "who's saying I can't!"

[geek]

my reply to people asking for my credentials is

"I do not need a license to practice journalism"

If they really are part of homeland security they should have a BPSST and if they in return refuse to give that up there impersonating a law enforcement officer. and that's where i take the discussion next.

A phrase I relye on is " news gathering is consituitionally protected conduct ".


a phrase that I have used after they get angry for putting them in the're place wich often gets the "do you have a prblem with that" I reply with "yes and I'd wrather discuss this in another venue and what is the name of your supplimental insurance company?" I've gotten mixed reactions to this but at that point it doesn't matter the tyrany is already being imposed.

If they imply you cant film just remeber "you cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy while in public view"

[ewink]

Originally posted by The Toplens:
Most people don't have a problem over here. You get the odd 'jobs-worth' who wants to know everything from your intentions to your inside leg measurement.
Our main response to "who says you can film here?" is "who's saying I can't!" I explain that I am not filming anything.

[JYT]

Originally posted by Man on the Street:
quote: Originally posted by Terry E. Toller:
"homeland security' my ass! this is sort of like the so called, Patriot Act. They assume that citizens should give up personal rights for security. NO!

... BTW, it's not a Republican or Democrat thing, they all want to take away rights... Terry: I'm wondering who the first "They" is referring to. Those private security guards can ask you questions all day, just like you can take pictures all day. Anybody can do that. They aren't real police (probably wish they were) and can't arrest you and better not touch you. What I would do is suggest they call the police if they think I'm doing something wrong. Otherwise, get out of my face.

To the original question about is this common in the U.S.: Yes, in my experience it is. Are you telling me that when you show up unexpectedly in Canada to shoot a building or people you don't get questions about what you are doing? I'm not saying it doesn't get tedious, but you just deal with it. Sometimes I just ignore them, sometimes I explain my rights to them, but I always expect them. Actually, I never get hassled about shooting buildings if I am on public property.

JYT

[Cameradude]

The credential thing always makes me laugh. It was one thing 20 years ago when I started out to have a "press ID", but in todays world of computers anyone can have a "press credential".

Furthermore, does NOT having a "press crendential" make you a "terrorism suspect" even when you are on public property??

A few months ago I was stopped while getting some shots of the Federal Reserve building in Charlotte, NC. Obviously in todays world I expected someone to approach me!! The officers ask what I was doing and if I had "credentials". I politely told them no and asked where I could get them and what they looked like.

"You know, one of those laminated cards that says PRESS," was their response. I laughed, offered my drivers license as a valid form of identification, and we chated about how useless a media credential really is for determining someones intent as a journalist.

"After all", I said, "if the 9/11 terrorist had passports that appeared valid, would you really trust that a "press credential" would make me NOT a terrorist?

They were nice guys, I got my shots, and I am sure there is a folder in their drawer with my info in it.

[ May 13, 2005, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: Cameradude ]

[5600K]

Originally posted by Cameradude:
The credential thing always makes me laugh. It was one thing 20 years ago when I started out to have a "press ID", but in todays world of computers anyone can have a "press credential".LOL You should see the handwriteen press credentials issued by the Philadelphia PD. Sad. That's why I have a NJ Press ID too.

[cinehead]

I wouldn't have a problem showing them my credentials. I wouldn't allow them to take any personal information down. They probably would just glance at it and go away. But I'd write a letter to the hotel officials asking them several things.
A) What legal standing do they think they have that gives them the right to ask for ID?
B) What gives them the right to do anything on the basis on "Homeland security". Does the Dept. of Homeland Security know this?
C) How were they going to determine if I was a terrorist?
D) Who wants to blow up a hotel in Wilmington? Seriously?
I'm sure there's others. They were probably just doing because their "guest" was mad and told them to do something about it. Tell them to be careful throwing the Homeland Security thing around.Okay, this is Canada not the U.S. so the laws my be different, but you do not need credentials. We in the media don't have any more right to show up and take pictures than any other citizen.

[Terry E. Toller]

I was doing a story on a city council member and the mayor of Sacramento years ago when the mayor's press flak found out that I was there. He tried to have me removed. In a letter he wrote that I showed him a 'plastic coated card but I didn not recognize the signifigance of that card". I showed him cards issued by the highway patrol and the office of the Governor.

A week later, I showed up at city hall with a 'plastic coated' eight and a half inch by eleven inch card that read, "RECOGNIZABLY SIGNIFICANT PLASTIC COATED CARD". The press flak was pissed but the security guard and the city council loved it!

Sometimes we can have fun with the jerks.

As for the law, there is no law requiring a press card. Of course, in DC, you need cards to show you have undergone a background check before you have close access to national leaders. Makes sense to me...

[Mighty Dyckerson]

Originally posted by Terry E. Toller:
Sometimes we can have fun with the jerks. Really? I've never had any fun with you.

[Deaf and Blind]

That's gotta hurt... :) lol