Time Based Corrector Issue

[Lil' Photog]

A high school I work with has a TV station and they recently upgraded their switcher. They got one of those little Grass Valley 100 series switchers which is a great learning tool for kids that age.

I try to advise them of technical things and they evidentally mistook some of my advice and bought some of the wrong things.

The cameras can be genlocked into the switcher no problem.

Then they have a ton of different video sources (graphics computers, videotape decks, live shot returns) on two identical routers that they used as sources on their old switcher (it only had four sources.)

My advice to them was to get TBC's for their two videotape decks and two frame syncs for their routers.

Instead they just bought two TBC's.

My first question is, can any external TBC work with any deck?

They have some JVC and Sony decks and yet they bought this: TBC (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=163998&is=REG)

My second question is if it would be possible to somehow use the TBC as a frame sync for their routers since they need those sync'ed more than they need their decks sync'ed. The reason being the decks can run through the router, but the router can't really run through the decks (in any easy manner.)

I don't have that much experience playing with TBC's and Framesyncs in this manner so if someone could let me know how screwed they are it would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[Icarus112277]

Never seen one of those, but it willprobably work as a TBC.

They should take the output of their house black generator, DA and send ref to all of their sources. That way in theory they will be able tio get them all in time by making adjustments to the horizontal and subcarrier.

Don't think the decks need to be frame sync'd if you do this.The router shouldn't need to be sync'd either if you can feed house black into it.

If you don't have a house generator, get one.

Its a pretty rare occasion when I've seen fram syncs used for anything other than remotes.

I could be wrong since I really haven't set anything up thats very similiar to your situation, but you can't go wrong by providing house reference to all of your machines.

EDIT:

Reread your post.

I would stick the live shot on a fram sync , gicve the other devices their own input into the 100, and sync everything to the house. If you need a router inout due to lack of inouts then yes I would f/s that as well. But try to give each device a genlock from house.

[Lil' Photog]

The router they are using is a push button router that is nothing more than a switch between sources.

Can "house black" be generated by the switcher? Isn't that blackburst? Just a blank signal with colorburst there for a reference?

At most of the stations I've worked at, Frames syncs were used primarily for live shots or anything random that needed to be used for the show. You'd just route it into a frame sync and run with it.

That's what I would do with these TBC's.

I want them to take the output of the routers into the TBC's and use them to sync that signal up to the switcher automatically.

The problem is I can't have them reference every source because not all of the sources are broadcast quality and don't have anything more than an output to deal with.

I don't know if a TBC can handle that.

A frame sync can take all of that consumer crap no problem and sync it up.

So basically there is a router that cannot be referenced, carrying signals from equipment that can't be referenced. Can a TBC sync the output of the router?

I wish they could just send the equipment orders through me directly and let me take care of this stuff, it would save SOOOO many headaches.

[Lil' Photog]

In regards to your edit:
They have the little GVG that has like 8-10 inputs. The biggest problem is that their equipment lacks the ability to reference anything. So their situation has changed from a lack of switcher inputs to a lack of sync-able devices.

I told them they can get around that by just sticking with the routers for the time being and buy two f-syncs for those. Since they have budgets issues (as do the rest of us) they can slowly start buying a few frame syncs every year and eventually move everything to its own switcher source.

But I'm just trying to help them make do until they get that stuff.

I hope I'm explaining this situation well enough and thank you very much for your help.

[Icarus112277]

I understand and I think your advice is do-able.

Howver, I would strongly suggest buying a master generator for the house. I think it owuld be cheaper than buying all those syncs. THe only thing you really need a sync for is the out of house (remote) video. Obtaining a master signal generator (which will generate house reference and bars) and DA'ing it ot each device is the proper way to do it.

Your way will work though it will limit their capabilities since you're only allowing them two non-camera sources.

Oh wait a minute- you mean their video sources don't have a reference input????? Yikes, that sucks. Guess you gotta do it your way then. I don't know what else you would do. Sorry I misinterpreted you for a bit.

[<w>]

What kind of tape decks are we talking here? VHS, SVHS, BETA, miniDV? Sony SP's for instance have a TBC built right in them, you can use them to time the output of the deck to your house black. If you are talking VHS or SVHS then yes you will have to use the TBC's on the input side of the switcher.

[Lil' Photog]

They are using consumer grade tape decks. One is some Sony DVCam/MiniDV setup and the rest of the stuff is Panasonic SVHS stuff. They do not have any internal TBC's. It's not bad for a high school but using this crap creates some SERIOUS headaches when you try to combine it with higher end stuff and to push the technical envelope.

I know I'm going to have to use the TBC's on the input side but can I use them as Frame Syncs for these little routers?

I talked to some other people and I found out they still might have to buy a house black generator and a DA because this switcher may or may not have what they need. I need to see their new stuff personally to figure out what the hell is going on.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Icarus112277]

The key to figuring out if the TBC's will do the job is this:

1) DO they accept a reference signal?
and
2) Can you control Subcarrier on the TBC- most can but I don't know if all do.

Either way you still need to have a reference signal to feed to the TBC...OR you can cheat by if you can get bars to generate from that source. You then need to set up up a half vertical wipe between switcher bars and the sources bars, then tweak the devices TBC to match the switchers bars. This is not a perfect set-up (if you try to make keys like this you are asking for the worst) but for cutting and simple transitions it will work just fine.

[Lil' Photog]

Thanks again, I think when I get some time to go over there and help them I can BS my way through it. I really appreciate all the advice. Thanks again.