Film School?

[videohead]

Is this a waste of money? Whats the best way to get into cinematography on high end productions like movies, music videos, and commercials. I still want to shoot news for a while, but am thinking down the road if there's any natural transition.

[TXPhotog]

That's one of the hardest fields to get into. A lot of it is luck and who you know. I have a friend who went to film school at Loyola Marymount in L.A., he graduated about 2 years ago. He is just now getting small jobs on independent films. I don't know if you are currently a news photog or not, but here in Austin, they shoot quite a few movies, commercials and music videos. Sometimes we do stories on them and it never hurts to schmooze a little other then just doing your interviews and leaving. I might suggest that if you are in a city where they shoot films or commercials, walk up to them during breaks and just make small talk about the industry. Remember, you can never know too many people. Good luck.

[tdelarm]

Videohead,

Is what a waste of money? Getting advice or education on how to accomplish something you want to do in life!

I think not!

Take a few short courses and start banging on doors.

Of course a full-fledge 4-year film degree will give you a much-needed boost but isn’t mandatory.

Check these options to start…

International Film & Television Workshops (http://www.theworkshops.com/filmworkshops/index.asp)

American Film Institute (http://www.afi.com/education/)

Brooks Institute of Photography (http://www.brooks.edu/)

USC also offers short courses as maybe NYU.

Think outside the box on how to accomplish your goals. When I first moved to Los Angeles looking for work I worked as an extra on film shoots to get close to the camera crew and ask questions.

The workshops worked the best for me. Courses run a week each and cost between $900 to $1500 but worth every penny. They also have 4-week courses.

Another option would be maybe add steady cam to your resume.

Good luck.

[Icarus112277]

FIlm school is only a waste of money if you let it be.

I certainly recommend it if you truly intend to pursue a career shooting film or high end video

If I were you I would take some intense camera courses.

There are local unions that run most film production.

For instance here in NYC Local 600 is the AC guild.

If you can pass tgheir test they'll give you work. And once you're in as an AC its a fairly small step to camera/ cinematpogfraphy.

You can go the indy route too, but be prepared for long hours and small mpney and years before you dfo anything worth talking about.

[quicklad]

Film school IS NOT mandatory. Certainly the degree gets you nothing and arguments can be made that the years involved getting the degree could be used getting the same knowledge elsewhere without the degree and $$$ that go to good film schools.

Simply volunteering on small/student/indie productions will get you experience without shelling out the dough to the film schools

Get yourself a job at a local film rental house (if they aren't local and you want in to the film part of the industry you need to move). You can learn the gear while you are getting paid. After a while start going out freelance as a 2nd AC, get experience - move up the food chain.

I do say go union - IATSE 600 is the camera local nationwide -but it is expensive to get in. If you start working on features as a Union AC - you will get it all back and more.

I disagree that "it is a fairly small step to camera/cinematography". It is a fairly large step unless you are extremely talented.

As to your exact question - NO- there is no natural transition from news shooter to DP.

other ways & needs-

lighting

start working on local student films

LIGHTING

workshops probably can help - but also Not Needed

Lighting and more Lighting

Do your own small productions

And - after working on many feature films - (in lighting dept, not camera dept) - be careful what you wish for.

Good luck,
Eric

[Tippster]

My Brother-in-Law has been working his way up the Camera Dept. ladder in LA for over 15 years now. He makes a good living, but most of his work is as a 1st AC or Art Dept. He has B-Cam Operated a few times on Features, and DP'ed a few shorts (for free) to pad his reel. The problem is there are thousands of people like him in the industry, and you can get lost in the shuffle. According to him, his film school BS degree didn't help much. Initially it may have gotten his foot in the door, but Quicklad's method is just as viable - sometimes even preferable. How many TV shooters do you know without a degree? It's the same scenario.

His "Posse" includes DPs, AC's, Producers, etc. He has all the contacts necessary to work, and without them he'd be toast. Eventually he hopes to solely DP, but until that day arrives he still needs to put food on the table. Also, the shift of the film industry to Canada really hurt everyone in the Biz.

By the way - shooting features and series is maybe 20% of what they do. The bread-and-butter money is in commercials and music videos. Since everybody is in the same Union, everybody does it all. You actually get a higher rate for a commercial than a feature/series as a 1st or 2nd AC. It's standard for those longer term projects to pay less, since they argue that you're employed longer. Most of the guys I know (through him) work maybe 1 film a year, the rest of the time they're shooting spots, which are also more likely to be local - not on location.

They do get fed well, though, but there are times when my Bro doesn't work for a month... no problem for him, he just goes surfing. You definately have to be fiscally responsible in that field.

[Shaky & Blue]

I attended film school and have some thoughts on this subject.

Cinematography, like television news, is a craft. You learn it by doing it. You can learn some of it by watching other people do it, but you don't really learn the craft until you do it yourself. Thus, while you may pick up ideas and working methods by working as a grip, electrician or camera assistant, you won't really learn cinematography until you're actually responsible for shooting something. A factor that contributes to this situation is that much of the cinematographer's work is done before the shoot in the conceptual stages, during pre-production, when the crew isn't around to observe.

That's where film school comes in. The advantage of film school is that you get to shoot films. You learn, in a somewhat protected environment, how to think as a cinematographer, director, editor and writer (knowledge of all of which are required for a successful cinematographer), by actually doing the job. Even though the films are smaller, you are involved in the entire vision of the project from beginning to end, instead of just putting in days in production doing technical work.

You do not get that experience from technical workshops or normal work as a grip or AC. It is true that most film school graduates who are interested in camera pursue work in these technical areas as a prelude to shooting films themselves, but the difference between them and non-graduates of film school is that when they decide to make the plunge, they have a better understanding of what it will involve from a conceptual standpoint, since they've already done it. They treat that work more as an apprenticeship than as technical employment. They also have a better understanding of telling stories from script to screen, which is stressed in film school alongside technical matters.

When I talk about film school, I'm referring to the conservatory style program that emphasizes storytelling and visual conceptualization. There are technical programs that also call themselves "film schools" that really aren't the same thing. For example, the Maine Workshops have an extensive technical program that lasts for several weeks or months but focuses on turning out graduates with technical proficiency. These people sometimes have an easier time getting work, but they often have a harder time moving up, because they haven't been given the grounding in storytelling. When choosing a "film school," you need to have a clear picture of what you ultimately want to do and choose accordingly. If you simply want to work in the industry in whatever capacity you can find a job, a Maine Workshop or New York Film Academy crash course may be sufficient.

You didn't mention whether you have an undergraduate degree already. If you do, there's no reason to go for a BA or BFA in film. Instead, you should attend a graduate program and get your MA or MFA. There are seven film schools in the US that are modeled on European conservatories, and you would be best served by one of them. I can only remember six of them off the top of my head:

UCLA
USC
NYU
AFI
FSU
Columbia

The American Film Institute (AFI) is probably the best. It's also the most competitive. AFI has a rigorous cinematography concentration track that routinely produces graduates who go right out and start shooting movies. This is in part because it also produces directors and producers who are ready to go right out and start making movies, and they often take their DPs with them. If I were going back for my graduate degree, AFI is where I would want to go.

I attended FSU, a relative youngster among the film schools. I went through the undergrad program, which is modeled on the graduate conservatory. The big advantage of FSU is that they PAY for ALL your film stock and processing, os you don't have to be wealthy to go there. My thesis film had a budget of $10,000 (before finishing and video transfer), all paid by the school. Their equipment and facilities are extraordinary, probably the best in the country. They are now shooting some of their thesis films on 35mm and have a couple of nice soundstages, Steadicams, a music scoring facility, some digital effects and probably the best mix theater at any school in the country. When I graduated, I had shot 17,000 feet of 16mm film over my time there, all bought and processed by the school.

There are also a number of other programs around the country that vary in quality. Many of them advertise themselves as "film schools" but don't actually shoot any film. If cinematography is your interest, stay away from them. Also, some of these so-called "film schools" are really just computer graphics programs that stress post-production and animation.

One of the MFA graduates from FSU (who recently received an Oscar nod for one of his screenplays) runs this site:

http://www.filmmaker.com/reviews.html

That URL takes you directly to what is probably the best review site for film schools on the net, because it allows film students and graduates to rate and discuss their own schools.

Like most endeavors, you will get out of it what you put into it. If you really want to do it, make the decision and commit yourself to it, then go for it. Even though I've gotten sidetracked in this teevee news thing, I wouldn't trade my film school experience and subsequent struggle as a cinematographer in the independent film world for anything.

[Ken]

I don't think getting a degree is a waste of money. The education you get lays a foundation for what you will learn in the practice of your given degree. I graduated from Emerson College with a degree in Mass Communications specializing in Television Production. Although I learned the theory behind television and film production...and had plenty of hands on time with gear doing student productions, I didn't really learn the craft until getting into the field. But without the bedrock of my education behind me, I think the road would have been very different and possibly much tougher in getting to my current level. Of course there are many outside factors that will also shape your career. Great attitude and willingness to learn from others will get you very far...and not being afraid to take chances can open up opportunities that would have been lost if not acted upon. All this being said there exceptions to the rule. I worked with a director early on in my career who went on to become one of the most senior people at NBC network, who doesn't have a college degree. He is one of the most ambitious and self assured people I know. So there are no hardset rules to getting ahead! There are also those who get opportunities because of who they know. This is true in any business, but unless you can prove your ability it won't get you very far. Like Shaky says, "You will get out of it what you put into it".