They Must Be Joking

[<WeWantEazy>]

DIRECTOR OF PHOTOGRAPHY APPRENTICESHIP (Go To Team) Charlotte, NC Are you ready to take your shooting to the next level? Go To Team is offering a unique opportunity to Chief Photographers and local TV Cameramen. This position is designed for photographers that want to gain enough experience to shoot, run audio, and light at the highest level. This position will be based in Charlotte, NC and work daily with our Director of Photography, Skip Clark (a former Go To Team Apprentice) on shows like, NBC Nightly News, Behind the Music, and ESPN Sports Center. You will be running audio, lighting, producing, and learning every aspect of high-end video production. We hope to move you into a full-time Director of Photography position for one of our other markets. Although during a typical week you will work 4 ten hour days, overtime is a sure thing. Experience in audio, grip work, and management is a plus. However, a solid reel and hard working attitude are key. We often work odd hours on short notice and international travel may be required. Requirements: Passport, Vehicle, Strong Desire to be the Best. Salary: $28,000 (plus, OT). Term: 1 Year Contract. There is only one way to apply. Mail 1 VHS Reel and Resume to our box. Applicants without reel will not be accepted. Please include an email address. Mail Reel & Resume to: Go To Team • 1001 East W.T. Harris Blvd. • Suite P -264 • Charlotte, NC 28213
[22948 From

Am I ready to take my photography to the next level? For $28,000 a year (plus OT)... I don't think so. That must be a LOT of OT!!!

This would have been an accurate job posting... Are you ready to get screwed over? Do you want to deal with producers that are complete a$$holes? We are looking for a sucker that we can abuse, like a bald headed stepchild. Some one we can bend over on a daily basis (applicants must have positive attitude). Do you want to work with the best in the business and get coffee for them? Then apply with us!!! We only pay $28,000 a year, but dont worry you will be working so much over time you will probably make around $500,000 a year. We hope to bull**** you into believing that we will actually keep you after the year contract, at which time we will assign you to one of our "bureaus" (bureaus don't actually exsist yet... but we plan on getting some REAL soon!)

PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN AND STEP AWAY FROM THE TABLE!!!!!!!! :eek:

[2000lux]

Does any one here work for these guys? I've seen this job listing before. What happened after your year as a sound tech?

[Icarus112277]

Yeah, for 28k plus overtime I would let them put me through a ton of classes, work 15 hour weeks, and never have a deadline.

[<database>]

web page (http://www.gototeam.com)
they might be for real

[<For Real>]

I have heard of them. I'm trying to find more details.

More to come.

[Eric Lian]

If I lived in NC, I'd be sending in my reel and my resume. At least it's an opportunity, but if any upfront fees are involved forget it.

I'm making the leap from $120/hr to maybe $10-12/hr. You need money to live, but money isn't everything. Could I live on 28,000 a year? Nope, but I could get a second job. Depends on how bad you want it, how bad you need it.

Anybody have a 30,000/yr job in Northern CA? Contact me. :D

[Baltimore Shooter]

Originally posted by Eric Lian:
I'm making the leap from $120/hr to maybe $10-12/hr.Say What???? $120/hr to $12/hr??? No offense, but what the hell were you thinking? You're supposed to move up the ladder, not down. Someone throw this guy a rope!
Warren

[Baltimore Shooter]

If you check out their website, they rent their Sony 600 pkg for $700/day. At $28k/yr (that's $13.46/hr) you'd have to work 52hrs just to be able to afford to rent their camera, not to mention the insurance you'll have to get to cover the rental.
Warren

[Shaky & Blue]

Isn't this the company whose founder was caught up in some kind of "misunderstanding" over some equipment stolen from a television station? I could be thinking of someone else, but I believe it was this group.

[Eric Lian]

Baltimore Shooter,

There comes a day when the pursuit of money becomes meaningless. The essence of the human spirit is in the struggle, to be challenged, striving for the impossible goal, and when that goal is attained, to seek new challenges, to grow in wisdom and understanding.

I have been to the top of the corporate ladder. It is a lonely, peerless place, set apart from the common man, far and away from reality itself.

But alas, my thoughts drifted back to the best of times, my year flipping hamburgers at $3.35/hr, the comraderie and tricks we played in the walk-in freezer; working at a full-serve gas station during the summer for $4.60/hr, pumping gas, watching traffic go by, but always being outdoors; working as a medic and not sleeeping for 72 hours because the call volume was out of control and someone had called in sick. The best jobs I ever had were the worst paying jobs ever.

So I let go of my rung, fell back to earth, sold away the worthless possessions I had attained to ease my boredom, and I am better for it.

Conversely, I have never thought back to the days I wore a suit and tie, sat in a cubicle, and stared endlessly at a computer screen wondering whether my stock options would split two or three times that year.

Nay, I tell you. The real fun is in the mud, the pit, the chaos, at the bottom of the ladder, with the likes of you.

Now, pass the mustard.

[queen of blue]

Originally posted by Eric Lian:
Baltimore Shooter,

There comes a day when the pursuit of money becomes meaningless. The essence of the human spirit is in the struggle, to be challenged, striving for the impossible goal, and when that goal is attained, to seek new challenges, to grow in wisdom and understanding.

I have been to the top of the corporate ladder. It is a lonely, peerless place, set apart from the common man, far and away from reality itself.

But alas, my thoughts drifted back to the best of times, my year flipping hamburgers at $3.35/hr, the comraderie and tricks we played in the walk-in freezer; working at a full-serve gas station during the summer for $4.60/hr, pumping gas, watching traffic go by, but always being outdoors; working as a medic and not sleeeping for 72 hours because the call volume was out of control and someone had called in sick. The best jobs I ever had were the worst paying jobs ever.

So I let go of my rung, fell back to earth, sold away the worthless possessions I had attained to ease my boredom, and I am better for it.

Conversely, I have never thought back to the days I wore a suit and tie, sat in a cubicle, and stared endlessly at a computer screen wondering whether my stock options would split two or three times that year.

Nay, I tell you. The real fun is in the mud, the pit, the chaos, at the bottom of the ladder, with the likes of you.

Now, pass the mustard. Hmmmmm .... I'm not sure if I'm flattered or insulted.

[Lenslinger]

Originally posted by Eric Lian:
Nay, I tell you. The real fun is in the mud, the pit, the chaos, at the bottom of the ladder, with the likes of you.
Very well put, Eric. I too turned my back on more lucrative disciplines to pursue the lost art of the white-balance. I was on-track to make a fine living selling luxury automobiles, but the soul-sucking tactics just weren't my bag. So I traded in my fancy-pants for a pair of faded jeans with a 'battery-rip' in the back pocket. Works for me.

Just don't let the chiselers back at the shop here you. They'll be happy to further shave your salary - and let you enjoy that bottom-rung freedom even more.

[Tippster]

Originally posted by Eric Lian:
...Conversely, I have never thought back to the days I wore a suit and tie, sat in a cubicle, and stared endlessly at a computer screen wondering whether my stock options would split two or three times that year. You do, however, still have that portfolio to fall back on, right?

Originally posted by Eric Lian:
Nay, I tell you. The real fun is in the mud, the pit, the chaos, at the bottom of the ladder, with the likes of you.

Now, pass the mustard. Sounds like you're "slumming." Fine, but a word of advice: Nobody likes to have their nose rubbed into sh*t. It's nice that you have the monetary nest egg to do whatever you want - I'd LOVE to go back and be a ski technician and Whitewater photographer - but understand that the rest of us do this for a LIVING, not as a hobby.

I'd keep your financial status on the "QT" when applying for jobs. Just look at the bitching about the Reporter/Photographer salary dichotomy discussed here on a daily basis to understand why. However, if you're looking into EFP - more power to you. At the very least you can fund some of your own projects. It must be an exciting time for you!

[Shaky & Blue]

Eric's and Lenslinger's posts are largely irrelevant, simply because there are ways to get to the level the Go To Team advertises without taking a pay cut. Sure, it's nice to leave the "corporate" world behind and "follow your dreams," but in this case there's no reason why you have to take a pay cut to do it. There are other ways in that pay considerably more.

[Baltimore Shooter]

Originally posted by Eric Lian:
Baltimore Shooter,

There comes a day when the pursuit of money becomes meaningless. The essence of the human spirit is in the struggle, to be challenged, striving for the impossible goal, and when that goal is attained, to seek new challenges, to grow in wisdom and understanding.Been there, done that, when I was young, hungry and had no experience. I'm older and (much) wiser now.
Warren

[Baltimore Shooter]

I saw this on Mandy's today:

"Need a cameraperson with his or her own camera (a camera appropriate to Chroma Key in Final-Cut Pro, ie. SD video, High Data Rate M-JPEG compressed analog video, DVCPRO-50, HDCAM, or DVCPRO-HD) to shoot puppetry in our studio. The cameraperson should be very knowledgeable in Chroma-Keying with Final Cut Pro. This person will assist in editing to insure success of the Chroma Key. The job will pay $150 per 8 hour day. www.babybumblebee.com (http://www.babybumblebee.com) "


They want DVCPro50 or equivilant and only want to pay $150 a day???? What the hell are these people thinking???? They found out you can't do cromakey w/ a mini dv camera, they realize they need to step up to a big boy's format but they don't want to pay for it. I say we all email these people (using that term loosly) and tell them what they'll get for $150 - some kid in hig school with a VHS camera.
Warren

[Baltimore Shooter]

So I sent the people an Baby Bumble Bee an email about their $150 a day w/ DVCPro50 gear -

"You want a DVCPro50 or equivalent (Digi Beta, Beta Sp, etc) and only want to pay $150 a day? I guess you don't understand how much a camera like that costs. A high end professional camera costs $50,000 to buy, about $1,200 a year to insure and about $1,500 in maintenance costs. If you were to rent a camera like this it would be about $600-700 a day. Not to mention the experience one needs to do a quality job.

This isn't something that a kid right out of high school or college or someone who shoots weddings can do. You need a lot of experience to do this. Lighting is crucial. Anyone with a home video camera may be able to shoot your wedding or Jimmy's first bicycle ride, but they can't do the high quality job that you state you're committed to in your website.

You must have found out you can't do chromakey w/ a mini dv camera, and you realize you need to step up to a professional format, so why don't you want to pay for it?

What is the going rate? Well, let's start with labor. Someone with experience who knows how to light for chromakey along with knowing how to shoot professionally is $350-$400. It takes working in small towns for many years then if you're good, you can move up to a big city affiliate. And if you're really good, you can go on to working for the networks. The shows like 60 Minutes, 20/20, and others are not done by someone with a Handycam from Best Buy, it's done with serious broadcast cameras, which is another issue.

It takes many years and an amazing amount of work to be able to buy a professional camera. I should know, I had to fight for a long time before I could convince a bank that I could afford a professional camera and actually make money with it. I had to provide financial records, financial projections, a business plan, a reference list with network clients and more. These things are $50,000 and up. Add into that the lens, the rest of the gear (lighting, audio, grip, etc), maintenance costs, insurance and that initial $50,000 investment has grown to over $100,000. The new HDTV cameras are $120,000 and that's without a lens! And you want to pay someone is $150 for a day? If all you want to pay is $150, you'll get some kid in high school with a Mini DV camera who doesn't know what they're doing just looking for "experience". Do you want to trust your company and your products to that?"

Warren

[<group of nine>]

Originally posted by Baltimore Shooter:
"You want a DVCPro50 or equivalent (Digi Beta, Beta Sp, etc) and only want to pay $150 a day? I guess you don't understand how much a camera like that costs. A high end professional camera costs $50,000 to buy, about $1,200 a year to insure and about $1,500 in maintenance costs. If you were to rent a camera like this it would be about $600-700 a day. You can buy a camera for $10,000 now a days and most people will not be able to tell the diference!

Originally posted by Baltimore Shooter:
You must have found out you can't do chromakey w/ a mini dv camera, and you realize you need to step up to a professional format, so why don't you want to pay for it? Formats are not important anymore. Why couldn't I chromakey w/ any 4:1:1 DVCAM? The 4:2:2 sampling arguement is ALL in Ivan's head.

Originally posted by Baltimore Shooter:
What is the going rate? These things are $50,000 and up.
Warren As I said, today anyone can buy into an almost studio profile format real lens camera for around $10,000.

---I bet Mr. Ivan will get blamed for this post :D

[<I want what you're smokin>]

Originally posted by &lt;group of nine&gt;:
[QUOTE]---I bet Mr. Ivan will get blamed for this post :D I know Mr. Ivan and you are no Mr. Ivan!
Is this Baltimore guy going to write e-mails to every cheap paying producer or company in the world until they pay what he thinks people deserve? Can you say writers cramp?

[cameragod]

Originally posted by &lt;group of nine&gt;:
[QUOTE] Formats are not important anymore. Why couldn't I chromakey w/ any 4:1:1 DVCAM? The 4:2:2 sampling arguement is ALL in Ivan's head.

Umm because it looks appalling. There are ways to improve green screen on miniDV i.e. amber backlight can help plus there are programs that fix some of the ugliness, but to be honest you are better of doing chromakey with an SP camera than a 4:1:1 digital.

[Hess]

I agree with God,

Cameragod that is. I was working on a project a couple of years ago, and was doing some greenscreen stuff that I knew I would have to post. I shot some of it with an Ike HL-V75w DVCPro 50 camera, and the other part of it on Beta SP.
The Beta stuff was much easier to key in my editor(DPS Velocity for those who asked).
I had to adjust the chroma on the DVCPro50 stuff shot with the Ike, and only had to adjust clip and gain with the Beta.
I had to do much more tweaking of the digital video as opposed to the analong beta.

Enjoy, and good luck,

Hes

[FatStinkyPhotog]

Shaky is right about a previous job posting from this outfit. Just over a year ago it was. Reason I remember is because I mailed them a resume and reel in late 02'. Never even got so much as a e-mail back. Was my tape really that s#itty? Believe me it wasn't.

Word around the campfire then was that one of the founders had sticky fingers when he left his local news gig for the bright lights of the
freelance business. A job posting elicited a similar thread of sour grapes/flames just like now.

Would like to read the results of the "Bee" Baltimore. Personally, I'm glad I didn't get any follow-up from them because I ended up with a much better gig anyway. I will suffer only to a certain point. I tell myself everyday I'm too old for this.

[Baltimore Shooter]

Originally posted by &lt;I want what you're smokin&gt;:
Is this Baltimore guy going to write e-mails to every cheap paying producer or company in the world until they pay what he thinks people deserve? Can you say writers cramp? Hey dude, someone's gotta do it! Thank god for cut & paste.

It's a hell of a lot better than saying "okay, I'll do it! I don't care what it pays, just pay me something. I always wanted to work in tee vee (in a redneck accent). Wow, I get to make a whole $150 a day! This sure beats that $8/hr job at McDonalds!"

Never mind the kid will have to pay $700 to rent the gear to make that $150. So let's see, at that rate, he'll have paid pay $550 in order to work for them. But he doesn't care, he's working in television. Stupid fu**ing fool.
Warren

[Shaky & Blue]

Originally posted by Baltimore Shooter:
quote: Originally posted by &lt;I want what you're smokin&gt;:
Is this Baltimore guy going to write e-mails to every cheap paying producer or company in the world until they pay what he thinks people deserve? Can you say writers cramp? Hey dude, someone's gotta do it! Thank god for cut & paste. Warren, you're wasting your time. The people who post those ads usually don't have the money to pay any more than what they post. For them, it's a choice between paying very little or not doing the project.

Of course, from the freelancer's point of view, the obvious response is "Then don't do the project until you have enough money to do it right." That message will NOT get through to them. They won't read your email and say, "Yeah, this guy's right! We should put this off until we can get it done the right way!" Instead, they're going to say, "Jesus, what an asshole! If you don't want the job, then don't apply!" You're not going to teach any of them a lesson by emailing them your protests.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the posts on Mandy and Production Hub are STUDENT productions. They don't list them as student productions, because they think they'll get a better response if they look like "professional" low budget filmmakers. I mean, to a film student, it looks a lot more cool to list under "Poseur Auteur Productions" than "Lick Skillet Community College." Granted, this Bumblebee thing looks like an actual company, but if you go off b*tching at everybody, you're going to catch students and low-budget indie filmmakers in your net as well. B*tching at them won't do any good either, since the ones who listen to you will be discouraged when they shouldn't be, and the others aren't going to listen to you anyway.

As for equipment rates, you'd be very surprised at what you can get by asking or begging. I once rented an Arri 35mm package for three weeks for $1500. Many rental houses will just flat out refuse, but most of them will deal, and some will deal generously. Anyone who understands this will not be impressed by your quoting your rate card.

These Bumblebee people will likely be able to find someone to do the job, maybe not with his own gear, but with access to it. Your message will not discourage them. If it makes you feel better to vent at them, that's fine; but don't harbor any illusions about your email's effectiveness.

[Baltimore Shooter]

Originally posted by Shaky & Blue:
[...don't harbor any illusions about your email's effectiveness. [/QB]Point well taken Shaky, thanks. It just bugs the f**king hell out of me that that probably WILL find some poor, hungry dumb a$$hole who will do it.

Though I appreciate your input.
Warren

[<Da Shizzolatah>]

Originally posted by Shaky & Blue:

Isn't this the company whose founder was caught up in some kind of "misunderstanding" over some equipment stolen from a television station? I could be thinking of someone else, but I believe it was this groupYes. The company's founder was accused of stealing a lens from WIS-TV where he was the CP/NOD. Blamed another photog for it, but he was caught red-handed. He's no longer allowed in the building over there. Don't believe me? FOI the Columbia Police Report. It has the whole story.

[Icarus112277]

Surprised he can still get work. Usually getting caught stealing is a career ender.

[<B-Careful>]

I don't know what happened. Most of us don't know what happened. I'd like to see the police report, but I don't always believe police reports. Most of the time they're one person's word against another.

We're talking about a serious accusation. Why wouldn't the station press charges if a lens was stolen? Something's fishy.


We should be more careful about what we say about others.

[ewink]

Because it costs money to prusue charges. If they got there camera back I am sure that is all they cared about.

[<B-Careful>]

It doesn't cost money to file a criminal complaint. If, in fact, the lens was stolen, and the station filed a police report then all the station management would have to do is tell the local prosecuter that they wanted to press charges. It would not cost the station one darn cent. Broadcast lenses cost at least ten thousand dollars. The theft would probably be classified a felony.

There's something fishy about this whole thing and unless you know the facts and can back them up you should not speculate adding to the rumor mill.

How would you like it if the was a rumor about you???